new stadium

oh hey guys, this ACTUALLY might happen.

[censored] YES!!!

So lets say this happens and Wilf actually starts an MLS team. What happens to the Stars?

Based on recent history in the league, who's to say they couldn't become our MLS team.

Or, at least, NASL could sell the identity to the MLS team.

I'm not holding my breath for there to be an MLS team even if the stadium thing happens, mind you.

Maybe just hold it a little, for me?

Would it be the same though? Didn't the previous D2 teams that "moved up" to MLS have the same ownership group. I know the league could sell the rights to the Stars to Wilf/MLS. But my question is more hypothetical on what happens if Wilf's decides not go that route.

This kind of concern is very valid. But, it's relevance at this stage seems a bit premature. I know I will support MN Stars FC for the duration of it's existence, regardless of MLS.

The only way the NASL is gonna get money from Zigy is if he buys the NASL Stars. Zigy could just as easily start up an MLS team name them the stars and the NASL could do nothing about it, the only rights the NASL has for pro soccer in Minnesota is for D2.

Unless the NASL waives any purchasing fee in exchange that the Stars would play in the NASL until the move up and USSF waived the 20 million down I doubt Zigy will touch Nessie as she is now.

but we are getting ahead of ourselves here, the article mentions nothing about how this thing is gonna get funded.

edit to add: thinking about it there probably would be copyright issue with Zigy starting up an MLS team and naming them Stars. So as KJ mentioned that is a way the NASL would probably get money from Zigy.

Just make sure the new stadium has a FIFA pitch...

In the Star Tribune video they one again mention soccer as a future event for the stadium.

If you were going to start an MLS team in 4-5 years would it be important to you to build a soccer culture in the city? Once the stadium gets built where would the team practice? It looks like the Vikings training facility in Eden Prairie would be too small for a team. It make sense to partner with the NSC and utilize their grounds.



To me, once the stadium deal is in place, we really should try to push Zygi to buy the Stars. He gets his feet wet with the beautiful game and we continue to grow the game in Minnesota.

So the only mention of soccer in the article was not actually in the article but in the video when Mondale was mentioning the sloping plaza that could be used for: Concerts, soccer, lacrosse, pond hockey.

I have no idea what they have in mind, if this area has seats or is just a big expansive area? However, IF MLS didn't happen here or would happen later and IF we still had a soccer D2 soccer team at that point and time, it would be an interesting scenario moving forward for a Stars home venue.

That would be an interesting scenario. When they mention crowds of up to 32,000 people in that space (the plaza) it seems like they could be building two stadiums similar the HDC.

This is why the Arden Hills location makes the most sense. The land in Arden Hills will never be suitable for housing. However, I think it makes no sense to develop a second regional sports facility in the north metro--especially given is close proximity to the NSC.

Would it be feasible for a team to train in Blaine and play matches in DT Minneapolis. Quite frankly, I do not think it would be that big of a deal. The only issue would be moving gear from one location to the other for matches.

I really don't see that as an issue it's what the Vikings do now. Winter Park to the dome is 14.7 miles. NSC to the Dome is 17.4 miles. For the Wild it's a 10 mile drive between the Xcel and Parade.

Why would they have to train in Blaine? Just curious. I'm not following I guess. Seems they could train anywhere if they were playing in Arden Hills or at the Metrodome location.

I just do not see how they could fit a training facility into that area.

It was just a hypothetical scenario. But one thing is for sure if Wilf does start a MLS team they will most likely not be practicing at Winter Park. There is no room for more fields and it would conflict with the first few months of the NFL season and the last few of the MLS season.

Most pro teams training area is nothing more than a field with really good grass to replicate the speed of the ball on that type of pro field. That's all that is really needed. A physical training facility near the headquarters would not be all that hard to put together. You would also want access to a turf field (Augsburg would do fine for that) for upcoming away games at turf fields.

I think if Wilf starts a MLS team he should go world class.

I agree JMC. That would be a fun place to hang out at on a day off!

I, for one, am completely unworried about where our hypothetical MLS team will train.

Me either Ben, I'm vastly more concerned as to what the primary color of their alternate shirt is. If it's not chartreuse the whole damn thing will be a colossal failure!

carriage before the something.....

I think it's time to discuss a new stadium name.

(Once it's moved to Minneapolis)

Guy's I'll start uploading some kits to footballshirtculture.com

should we begin debating team names again?

Definitely. Is ThunderHawks taken?

Guys, what does "Stars" even mean?

Well you see Minnesota's motto i..

*has aneurysm*

We should just create an off-topic thread. Is that cool with admins/mods?

I like orange dragons.

Put down the apple sauce.

Anything but the "Hubert Horatio Humphrey, Jr. Part II Metrodome at Mall of America Field." By far the worst name in all of sports history.

One word answer... Hockey

Ok, so that also then eliminates the Ronald Monkey Reagan Trickle Down Dome Home as a name also. I heard that one was just a rumor?

Here comes the [censored]-off train

I love the great language by the newly elected member of the Dark Clouds. Great role modeling Pfutz!

I would like to see some great corporate sponsorship. I doubt Target would try and jump on this one. Where is 3M when you need them!

General Mills, too. Could be cool to call it General Mills City Stadium!

I admit, I was probably one of the first people dubbed by Ted Mondale's announcement of a "stadium deal." However, I got some great insight into this mess over the weekend when I had lunch with some of my old political buddies/connections down at the state Capitol from my lobbying days at our version of the Parliment of Whores. (If you read PJ O'Rourke, you will know what I am talking about.)

1. Mondale and the Gov. never really consulted legislative leaders on this deal. I think that they kind of forgot how things work in a republican form of government. (Note this is small "r" republican.)

2. The Arden Hills site is still very much alive. The real test will be political manuvering as gambling is a big issue. Gambling seems to be the big sticking point. That is why I think it is so cool the Stars are having an event up at Running Aces, or whatever it is called. Sign me up as I have no clue what to do if it does not involve dice.

3. There is a lot of question over whether soccer could fit into the plans for a new football stadium. Rumor has it that Zigi really is not interested in soccer but will let the "s" word slip out every once in a while to keep people interested.

4. The "soccer" field Mondale was talking about is really something like a "national mall" type concept, except on a much smaller scale. A few U9 and 10 teams would think it would be a great deal. JW7 can testify to this one--you really do not play much soccer on the National Mall in DC as the turf sucks. I think the federal government right now is doing some big time up keep on the Mall.

At any rate, I just wanted to add to the discussion. Okay Haters, time to lay into me and call for Dan to close this thread for someone injecting politics into the discussion. Before you do, please keep in mind that it will take politicians to get MLS into MN.

lolumadbro?

Anyways, Thanks for the rumors. I'm excited to hear what they say tomorrow!

holy crap... I'm having this strange feeling as I mostly agree with Soccer Boy

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Looks like there's a deal in place for the Vikings to use TCF stadium during construction.
http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/dpp/news/minnesota/vikings-tcf-bank-stadium-deal-feb-21-2012

Slightly off topic, but how how much is a MLS franchise fee? Looks like it's about 40 million dollars. Seems like pocketchange when stadium costs are around one billion dollars.

"Saputo first entered talks on joining MLS in 2008, but an initial bid to start in 2011 was turned down when he balked at the US$40 million expansion fee, proposing instead a package of about $43 million that included a fee and the cost of expanding their stadium."

Lets invest all our beer money into lottery tickets. We hit the jackpot and we have enough for the MLS fee.

Nobody better touch the beer money.

Seamonster, I believe Garber was talking over twice that amount for the next franchise. Can he get that amount of money? That's a question yet to be determined. But he's asking a lot.

Also, someone has created this Wiki page on MLS expansion. Someone who is good at editing Wiki stuff should get in there and add the Minnesota information as we are excluded from the list of potential MLS expansion cities on this wiki page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansion_of_Major_League_Soccer

Double post. Sorry! Damn intranets. Everyone of them!

Okay, bad idea. Please forgive me!

Yep, Garber wants between 75 to 100 million dollars for team 20. But that's for a NYC team. Do you think he would accept less for a team in Las Vegas, Orlando, or here to expand MLS's footprint?

http://www.mls4mn.com/expansion-fee-for-mls-team-20-could-be-in-the-75-to-100-million-dollar-range/

Took care of Wikipedia. We'll see if it stays up.

"Took care of Wikipedia. We'll see if it stays up."

Excellent!

now have you fixed that NASL google issue?

If folks don't know what Jim is talking about it's in reference to a Sean Francis post this morning on MLS Insider that the North American Star League gaming league is now the number one hit for NASL. What's funny about this is I was getting mega hits on my NASL Google alerts a year ago with the Star league. So much so that I had some email conversations with Aaron Davidson about it. I was told they weren't worried and had an their web guys working on it. ........OK, well how's that working for you now?

David never messaged me! Can you believe that? So my thinking is if they change their title tag to:

NASL - North American Soccer League

...and fix their canonical issue of nasl.com not 301 redirecting to www.nasl.com then they will rank #1 for NASL.

For payment, I shall drink Surly out of The Cup.

"For payment, I shall drink Surly out of The Cup."

So what you are saying is you've already been paid by drinking Surly out of The Cup last fall. How gracious of you.

The Star Craft version of the NASL is still going? neat.

http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2012/02/mls-sanctions-dynamo-supporters.html

Not something you like to see. Proud of our FO for giving us the trust to let us have fun. Proud we're able to self-police and keep each other safe.

Hope that if we ever do go to MLS the same sort of relationship remains. But something about the culture of that league makes me worry.

I am reluctant to post this here because it is somewhat off topic, but then again, this thread has covered a number of different off-topic items. At any rate, by the looks of this article, the enemy combatant detainees are poised to join the league.

Gitmo to get $750K soccer pitch

http://www.mlssoccer.com/blog/post/2012/...first-expansion

"Forget NY and Orlando: Could Minnesota be first to expansion?"

Did Mayor Rybak's chief of staff really comment on the mls piece or is that fake? If real that is pretty cool.

It would be in line with what Rybak said so far.

What the article doesn't mention is when the detainees enter the field Hristo Stoichkov is waiting for them to break their legs.

Yes, it really his him. I checked his Facebook. How cool is that?

nice

Stadium deal to be announced at 9am

Sounds promising but holy moly is there still a ton of questions about financing. Guess I should just hope the news conference actually takes place (baby steps to 9am, baby steps to 9am)

So stoked to hear what's up.

Wilf just said this stadium was is a step towards getting MLS.

Third mention of an MLS team!

Was trying to find field dimensions of Lucas Oil Field and missed what Ted Mondale said about MLS, bringing a team to Minnesota would be in the bill?

Viking revenue goes to the Vikes but reveune from MLS would go to stadium council?

PEOPLES TEAM.

Well there's a great incentive for the Wilfs to invest in the team/marketing.

Edit: came across very negative. I don't intend that to be the case; I actually think that is not a bad way of handling things, although I'd like to see the Vikings themselves give more back since they're the primary beneficiaries.

No, it's actually that all non-vikings and non-soccer revenue goes to the state.

I keep looking for field dimensions for Lucas Oil Stadium since that was mentioned as an example of what the new stadium would be like. I know, they could be refering to just the design and what not but still thought I'd look up the dimensions. All I got was this from bigsoccer:

~An interesting fact about the new Lucas Oil Stadium. The field can be expanded to fit a FIFA-regulation soccer pitch. Whether that is for some friendlies or a future World Cup being held here, it is still interesting that a soccer-less town would make a football stadium that has movable seats to accomidate soccer.

non-Vikes and non-soccer really? Well then boom! Zigy is serious about MLS.

Where is that mention? I missed it, was it in the press conference?

which mention, stadium revenue or about Lucas Oil Stadium?

Lucas Oil

Lucas Oil talk was in the press conference, Mark Wilf is on FAN right now talking about Lucas Oil too and it sounds like the reference was in regards to design; concourse, suites, etc.

just saw this is to be a fixed roof stadium

also this has a line saying all non-football revenue would go to the stadium authority

" Under the arrangement, the public stadium authority would operate the stadium, the Vikings would keep the revenue related to football games and the non-football related income would go to the authority, Mondale said."

That means fake turf also, of course, though that shouldn't be a surprise.

We always expected turf, fixed roof is a disappointment though.

ATTENTION ALL SOCCER SUPPORTERS:

I would encourage everyone to call their STATE reps and senators on this issue. If you do not know their number, go to www.leg.state.mn.us. You can also look up who your STATE rep or senator is if you do not know.

Being a former lobbyist with experience out in Washington, DC and at the state Capitol, I would recommend a call and a follow-up e-mail. DO NOT bother calling anyone but your STATE rep or senator. They will care less what you think!

You should also check and see if your state rep or senator is changing due to the recent reapportionment. The lines will change in the November 2012 election and your current rep/senator may be in a new district.

I would also recommend you have your friends call/email.

When you do, also be sure to mention that the stadium needs to be FIFA regulation. I just got off the phone with my state rep and senator (I have their personal cell #'s) and they both were unaware a soccer pitch does not fit into a football stadium.

I would also note that funding is still a MAJOR issue. There may be an agreement, however, legislative supporters still need to get the votes from the members of their respective parties. Politics makes for strange bedfellows sometimes.

Sorry for getting "political" in this post, however, a well organized grassroots effort from jackasses can build stadiums!

Oh yeah, be polite and say thank you...

Fixed roof keeps the noise in at least. And we'd be ready for the switch to the FIFA calendar.

And think of the home field advantage. It would be unique in the soccer world (though I think there are a few fixed-roof stadiums out there, though most of those have retractile grass).

Plus side of turf is we'd have state of the art material. They've got another 4 years to improve the technology.

this is the kind of politics i like. also its the kind of thing i don't mind another grown ass man telling me to do.

a fixed roof stadium made of a translucent material could allow for light to pass through. add to that heat under the field, extra lighting, and irrigation, and maybe, just maybe, grass could grow inside.

technology is amazing today.

I don't care how advanced turf gets, it still doesn't beat real grass.

I like jimcrist's window on the roof idea. It would make it greener (allow real grass to grow) and 'greener' (a roof without the need for as much lighting.) Some stores, like the WalMart where my mom works, are already doing this.

Did you just propose building the Minneapolis Municipal Both Kinds Of Football Stadium in Qatar?

I think you did.

Football teams generally *prefer* turf to real grass AFAIK. I would be surprised if there are any plans for real grass. The closest thing I would imagine is some very basic consideration of laying sod over the turf for certain events.

Anyone disagree and want to set me straight on the first point?

Grass would be great. Odds are slim. But that's something we can push for. Communicate it to your legislators and maybe we can help influence the decision making process!

I'm guessing this would be the turf we get.

So there has been some more updates on the stadium and MLS.

-- The new stadium would have a fixed roof, with an option to go retractable "without any increase to the funding provided by state or city." That would seem to suggest that if the Vikings want a retractable roof, they'd have to pay for it.

-- The Vikings have exclusive rights to bring Major League Soccer to the new stadium within five years of its opening, and the team could play there without paying additional rent. "The team intends to actively evaluate pursuing an MLS franchise," the term sheet says.

http://www.startribune.com/politics/blogs/141066343.html

Was just going to post that news about the option to go retractable. Would most likely still be turf but I wouldn't complain if we have a MLS team in the next few years.

This is all good news for getting a team.

If the stadium is approved we must keep Zygi's feet to the fire. Lobbying as a group at Vikings events etc...

All a big IF for the stadium.

DARK CLOUDS UNITE.

Here's the text of a letter I am sending along:

Hi there

My name is [NAME] and I live in [LOCATION]. I love the Twin Cities and could never live anywhere else.

The only thing I may love as much as the Twin Cities, is soccer. I believe strongly in the sport, and what it can do financially and culturally for our State. Soccer is often referred to as the world’s game, and I believe our state has a place in it.

For this reason I strongly encourage you to ensure that any new stadium development in Minnesota is designed to accommodate FIFA regulation soccer. FIFA is the governing body of world soccer, and creates the standards that all professional leagues adheres to.

It is important the design accommodates for a FIFA regulation field because the dimensions are slightly larger than existing NFL fields. Though the difference is negligible for football, it’s paramount for the potential of soccer here.

The difference should also matter to Minnesotans. Soccer is the most lucrative sport in the world, and represents an industry many times larger than the NFL. Major League Soccer (MLS) is one of the fastest growing sports in the country, and has already surpassed the NBA, and NHL to become the third most attended sport in the US. Soccer is also the most played sport in America, and is only growing.

Major league soccer is growing too, and the Twin Cities’ diverse population and large youth base make it an excellent market for expansion of the league.

In addition to MLS, having a large-scale soccer-capable stadium introduces the possibility of World Cup, Olympic, and other major soccer events. Which means relatively minor changes to stadium design can represent millions of dollars in additional revenue for the state of Minnesota.

American football plays only 8 home games during regular season use. MLS soccer would provide at least 18 additional home games without even accounting for the massive economic boost of hosting World Cup, Olympic, International Friendly, and finals matches.

The last time we had a top tier soccer team in Minnesota we averaged 30,000 attendees per game. And since then the sport has only grown in the United States. Soccer makes sense for Minnesota. Support a true multi use stadium in Minnesota; ensure it can support FIFA regulation soccer.

Thank you.



I encourage anyone interested to do the same, use this letter or draft your own!

Well stated! I am going to copy and paste this letter next chance I get in front of a computer.

More comments about the stadium and possible expansion:

Courtemanche said the Twin Cities would be in the "primary tier" of target markets if the league expands further. "We certainly believe we'll go to the Midwest, which bodes well for the Twin Cities," he said. Other markets that would be a good fit that he put in the same category as Minneapolis/St. Paul: Atlanta, Miami and Orlando, the latter of which is getting a visit today from MLS commissioner Don Garber.

Why is Minnesota viable? There are four key criteria the MLS looks at for possible expansion targets, Courtemanche said: committed local ownership with resources (Montreal paid a $40 million expansion fee and the figure will continue to rise); a stadium plan -- preferably but not necessarily in a soccer-specific stadium; good market size; and a history of fan support.

"Even a fixed-roof stadium wouldn't be a deal-breaker"

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/141093003.html

Maybe it's just the lawyer in me, but "Actively evaluate pursuing" to me is very, very different from "pursue" or "actively pursue."

I still see this as mostly puffery and bargaining BS.

But I hope I'm wrong.

I sent letters out this week inviting Rep. Loeffler & Sen. Dziedzic (NE MPLS) to the home opener (w/ 2 tickets) and briefly explaining the importance of making sure this is FIFA regulation.
Andy and I did the same with Rybak along with a scarf. I'm not holding my breath for any of them to come, but I think this all makes for good timing. I think it's good for all of them to be aware that A) this is an issue and B) their constituents care about it.
I've thought about inviting Zygi and Lester Bagley (a fantastic name by the way).
As for the "deal-breaker" thing... I can't see a WC game in a dome and there definitely needs to be the ability to throw grass on top of turf (which it will almost surely be).

Sapporo Dome in Japan hosted an WC game.
Also the Silverdome in 94.

I'm all for inviting the entire Vikings front office to the Metrodome home opener.

Actively pursue is a promise that no one is going to make at this stage.

evaluate pursuing is puffery because it has 0 requirement for action

Actively evaluate pursuing is good. It indicates there will be a actual process of determining the viability, which could lead to real pursuance.

At this stage that statement has been the most definitive indication of the potentiality of MLS coming to MN. Coupled with those confirmed reports Wilf has spoken with MLS it's one that gives me a [censored] ton of hope.

I mean let's be real, Zygi Wilf does not, and has not ever needed the support of the Minnesota soccer community.

We are not a powerful lobby that is set to change the tide of support for this stadium. All it has ever required was support from existing sport franchise fans, and the right conditions.

What our lobby can accomplish is doing our best to ensure that the right steps happen when the rubber hits the road, and we do that by working with our local representatives. They are the people that can continue to create the potential for MLS via fighting for a stadium that can work for it.

http://prod.static.vikings.clubs.nfl.com/assets/images/stadium/DES-bowl-view-big.jpg

http://prod.static.vikings.clubs.nfl.com/assets/docs/stadium/DES-plan.pdf

Not a great plan overall, they are forgetting to add benefits to the owner...

Say hello to the new... LA Vikings!

although the sketch on that first link is old, i've been seeing it for years, and it is just an artists rendering, the playing surface looks suuuuuper wide.

Getting back to the turf debate, why is it they cannot grow grass indoors. America has a long history of growing some extremely powerful weeds inside. For as anti-drugs as I am, I would support an amendment to the stadium bill to enlist the belp of all weed cultivators to help grow grass indoors. There would then be an exemption for them to grow all the dope they want. Just a thought.

In other news, I am meeting up with some MN legislators for drinks this week. I will press for details. I have a hunch this bill will mot fet passed during the current session and will require a special session.

Grow lights cost a ton to run. It works out financially when you are are growing high profit margin cash crops, but not just to grow grass indoors.

For those talking about real grass indoors, from the Ryback thread, some links to give you some background...

http://www.usldiscussions.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/277543/Re_Rybak#Post277543

That little old jersey collector

Me

"That's a question-mark everyone's asking." - Bruce Grobbelar, former Liverpool goalkeeper

You would hope common sense prevails and they have a retractible roof. I think a DT Minneapolis sight is great. Lots of nereby parking, near/on a ton of rransit lines, close to hotels and great DT resturants.

matthew was right about the FIFA fit:

"Lucas Oil Stadium is capable of hosting a FIFA soccer event with a field that would be 68 meters wide x 105 meters in length. I hope this information is helpful to you. Have a great day!
Heidi Mallin
Special Services/Public Information Coordinator
Lucas Oil Stadium "

Well, the great stadium bill our governor put together failed to meet the committee "deadline" today. In other words, the bill is essentially dead. That means a special session is going to be necessary.

Lets keep the phone ringing at the State Capitol!

MPLS City Council now supports new Vikings Stadium

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2012/03/26/dayton-announces-mpls-city-council-support-for-stadium/

Huge step forward.

and http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2012/...tadium_plan.php

Beat me to it pfutz. Great news if you're a stadium supporter.

We really need to generate some more calls, e-mails and letters to our legislators on the Vikings Stadium Bill [s][/s] . I think that a special session is not even a question if they cannot make any progress.

Pfutz put together a great sample letter, which is posted on this thread. Remember to send it to your STATE representative and senator. CAVEAT: Your current rep/senator may not be your "new" rep/senator after the November elections. Be sure to not only let the incumbent (if applicable) know your position, but also the opponent.

Well, it looks like the Vikes will need a special session if this things gets done this year. Curses to all of them!

I had lunch today with one of my old lobbying buddies. He is not lobbying on this issue, but told me support is dwindling. It sounds like Speaker Zellers need some phone calls on this issue. Lets get the phones ringing at the Capitol.

Can someone explain to me the urgency on it? As far as I can tell, no one from the Vikings has actually threatened to move and the primary prospective destination everyone talks about (LA) is not exactly actively courting the franchise.

From what I read, the Vikings have done everything that has been requested of them and they're still no forward momentum.

http://www.startribune.com/politics/statelocal/148022185.html

The National Football League said Wednesday the Minnesota Vikings' chances of getting public money for a new stadium appears to have reached a stalemate, and that the league's commissioner is ready to tell Gov. Mark Dayton which other cities were willing to have the team.

Sad thing is, if the Vikings do leave, I think this makes MSP that much more attractive for a MLS franchise.

that's what I was thinking. I can't imagine Minnesota without the Vikings, but I couldn't imagine Seattle without the Sonics either...

The urgency is that the Vikings are no longer under the their lease, which requires them to play in the Dome. I do think the NFL owners would not approve a move at this point, and there is some indication they will award an expansion franchise to LA. However, I really do not see a new stadium being built if the NFL leaves town.

I am bitter about this issue. The entire state legislature is up for re-election and nobody has the guts to do anything. What a bunch of jerks--all 201 of them!!!

I think Jacksonville or St Louis are at just as much risk of moving as Minnesota is.

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/collect...m_potpour.shtml

"There is no next year," Bagley said. "We were told by the last governor in 2006 when the Twins bill and the Gophers bill were moving forward that the Vikings were going to have to stand down, we'll come back next year. That was six years ago. After 10 plus years and an expired lease, we need to get this issue moving, get it done this year. Get it to the floor, let all 201, because there is support to get it to the floor, and let all the legislators get a shot at it because there is support in this building to get this done this year."

Except for that one minor detail. Actually finding an owner with the sort of money that can pony up 70-90 mill for a franchise fee and share the cost of a new SSS in a town that will still be competing against the NBA, WNBA, NHL, MLB, Saints, Swarm and a major D1 school and their sports programs.

It would be a bit ironic if they did move to LA and took the MN to MLS hopes with them, because the people that have offered them (and everybody else) the land to build a stadium in LA is none other than MLS's own AEG Entertainment.

http://aegworldwide.com/facilities/facilities

To me the Vikings are the 800 pound elephant in the room. If they go it opens up a huge slot in local sports news. No need to worry about competing against the media for WNBA, Saints, and Swarm for coverage. Even the Gophers aren't much competition.

I would think the Vikings leaving would actually make ownership of a team more appealing since the backlash against the NFL would be enormous. (Of course, Zygi couldn't be the owner of the MLS team then for obvious reasons).

AEG might be nice enough and exchange Chivas USA for the Vikings (even though they don't own them). Then I'd be all for rebranding them the Kicks.

If they leave, do you think they would revisit the Lowertown Saints / Soccer stadium combination?

If the Vikings leave any MLS team would have to foot almost the entire bill for an SSS; there is no way there would be any support at the State Capitol, on local sports radio or from the loudest voices in the sports reporting community for a soccer stadium. If the Vikings leave those three groups main focus will be on landing a new football team.

Yesterday a popular opinion I heard around work and town was that the Dems killed the bill cause they don't want to support such a barbaric sport. I feel confident in saying people with those opinion would work to make sure an NFL team came before an MLS. When talk of MLS was brought up quite a bit at that major press conference I listened to two dj's on one of the popular sports radio stations speak for 15 minutes on how they don't care how much an MLS team would sweeten the stadium deal they hate the sport and don't want it.

Soccer may be growing and it doesn't get straight up dumped on like it used to but the venemous objection to funding an MLS stadium before bringing back an NFL team to this town would be incredible.

For me its for four reasons.

1.I really believe Zigy is losing his patience and he has been an amazing owner for the Vikes, best I've ever seen the team have. I would love if a stadium was done so he continued to own the team
2.I believe that if this downtown deal isn't done all future stadium deals will be suburban based. Which is where I wouldn't want any potential MLS team to play.
3.I think keeping Minneapolis and St.Paul as the focal points of the metro area is key to cutting down wasteful sprawl in the metro area and can lead to smarter development in the burbs.
4.Building a stadium isn't getting any cheaper, the longer we wait the more it'll cost.

I have to say, when the NFL starts threatening to move, I can't help but think, "fine, piss off then." This stadium deal is pretty terrible (even though I'm semi-for-it), asking the government to pay a ridiculous amount and get very little back. Coercing that deal through threats is not going to change minds.

MLS will only come to MN, as BQ says, when a serious owner with money comes around.
Matthew, I think the difference will be that the cost of a SSS will be drastically less than for the Vikes. Also, maybe it's because I don't listen to sports talk radio, but there is a different demographic of Twin Citizens who would be interested in soccer not because they like it, but because it represents something new. I saw that when I brought the issue up to Mayor Rybak. People in the room (this was not a sports crowd) perked up. That's anecdotal and not a universal claim, but everything revolves around an owner. If a serious owner comes, it could happen.

This pretty much sums up my opinion every time a sports team wants money from the state to build a stadium.

I'll be the first to say I don't like football or the Vikings all too much. But I'm also aware most people in this state do, and probably do want the Vikings to stay here. Combined with the potential for this bill to get us an MLS team, I'm a proponent of the new stadium. But hey, maybe if they leave, we can get a MLS team in the fallout like Seattle did.

That said, this Strib piece talks about the other likelihood, which is the cost of replacing the vikings with another nfl team down the line:


http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/147856875.html

Yep, it's all about money. MSP really needs a group of investors to pull this off like in other markets. If the Vikings leave does that make owning the Stars look better if you have MLS dreams?

Stadium would be a challenge but not nearly as big of one as an NFL stadium.

In 2012 dollars, Columbus Crew stadium would cost $39.8 million. I would think US soccer would gladly throw that down to have an outdoor stadium in Minnesota for USA vs. Mexico in February.

Toyota park was $98 million to build. Holds 19,680 people.

PPL Park cost $120 million to build. Holds 18,500 people. Naming rights to its home venue for $20 million over 11 years.

Rio Tinto Stadium cost $115 million. Holds 20,000 people. Naming rights over a fifteen-year period worth between $1.5 million and $2 million per year.

Livestrong Park cost $200 million.

To be fair the NFL and Vikings haven't threatened up until now and have actually gone out of their way when asked about a potential move to downplay it. But I understand the feeling. As for the deal, not my favorite either I really believe a state wide or metro wide restaurant/booze tax would be best. Also and this might be my old-tyme liberal thinking but having the gov't dump a bunch of money in the economy in a development project like the stadium now sounds great. Is there areas that could use that funding instead of stadium? Yes. If this stadium doesn't pass would the 500 million go to towards those needs? No. I guess it then comes down to each of our take on this question; do you believe it is better $500 million from the state goes into the economy or not?



Hey my take on what I heard is anecdotal too so no qualms there its good to hear what others are hearing around the area. And while I agree an SSS would be cheaper, any sort of funding from the State is gonna probably have to be under $100 million. Cause the way I see it anything over that and a majority of people will say, "whoa, whoa, whoa that money should be going towards getting us an NFL team." Heck I even think the lose of the Vikes will hurt the T-wolves on getting renovatin funding for the Target Center.

edit to add: I really dig Rep. Krisel; think if all goes well for him he could be Gov., but I can't help to think "plan B" should be called "plan layaway".

I was raised a Lions fan.

/shrug

Lannister!

I would totally be a Vikings fan if their motto was "WE DO NOT SOW."

To totally derail this thread, we need "Winter is Coming" tifo this season. heh. Minnesota

Jacksonville yes, St Louis no. There is also a slight possibility of San Diego making the move north.

Lot's of article floating around about St. Louis looking for a move back. The Rams are playing three games in London over the next three years.

Things are not looking good for them and their owner is a little frustrated...

So the Vikes move to Carson, Chivas USA moves to San Diego, the Rams move back to St. Louis, the Minnesota Lakers move to Los Angeles (where there are no lakes), the New Orleans Jazz moves to Utah (where they don't allow music), and neither St. Louis or the Twin Cities ever get an MLS franchise.

I'm so fine with all of this I think I'm going to take a celebratory nap.

YES!

I need to borrow the projector. I WILL make this (once I get back from vacation). But really, this should be a playoff banner, after summer is over.

I don't get the "Winter is Coming" thing.

Lots of people won't.


Manny says "embrace it."

So is anyone going explain the reference to the rest of us non fantasy-watching-sperglords?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=winter+is+coming

Irrepressible grim-faced northerner, fending off upstarts from the south and strange enemies on his northern border? No, I get it.



or for a more Carl-flavour:



We should put cones up for this derailment.

Google is very HBO heavy.

House Stark of Winterfell is one of the Great Houses of Westeros and the principal noble house of The North; many lesser houses are sworn to them. In days of old they ruled as Kings of Winter. Their seat is Winterfell. Their sigil is a grey direwolf racing across a field of white, and their words are "Winter Is Coming."

Instead of a Direwolf, we need to use NESSY!

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=define%3A+sperglord

Or Gary the Cat.

If we went with nessy, people would confuse us for house Greyjoy. Gary is the only option.

Sidenote: I love where this thread is going.

Or a snarling Van Oekel...

This is beyond brilliant.

There is no way we could paint this, but we should see what it would cost to get printed in large format. It is incredible. We have time.

Just "WINTER IS COMING" would be a pretty awesome mega-banner.

Holy crap, did you ever. Seems this needs to get picked back up on a 2012 Tifo thread. Meanwhile, back at the capital....

So, who want to be responsible for talking with Soccer Boy about this thread?

I am in Florida and can't have a heart to heart with him about fantasy literature and how when we say "new stadium" we really mean, "building a new castle and pledging allegiance to the league."

LOL.

Winter is coming? I dont get it ...

While I do appreciate the comments directed at me--you are funny SR--I do think the group needs to get serious about contacting the legislature on this issue. I really think one person who has been removed from the process is Speaker Zeller. (Hold onto yourself, I am going to attack a Republican.)

Speaker Zeller is the only one in the House that can push this bill forward. Rep. Kreisel has been taking a lot of heat from fellow Republicans on his gambling bills. While I think Rep. Kreisel is a RINO, he is the only one at the Capitol will "balls." I guess that is why he is not running for re-election.

If Speaker Zeller gets pressure, he can make things happen. If the House moves, the disorganized Senate will follow suit. (The Senate is more disfunctional than the House--thank you very much Senator Koch!

Saving the stadium = saving the Vikings = chance at MLS. Without a stadium the Vikings will leave and we will not get a stadium and have zero chance at MLS.

How about a donkey on top of the Dark Clouds logo!

I'd be cool with the donkey. Maybe with a dark cloud tattoo on it's ass. That would look great in our new STADIUM!

Totally tied that back.

Stadium situation looks pretty bleak right now. Wouldn't be the end of getting an MLS team here but the road would be a lot more crazy.

Zellers does seem to be the problem as Kriesel is not beholden to reelection.

Is Kriesel the Ned Stark of the stadium issue?

I don't see how this is necessarily the case. There's a dozen better MLS historians on this board than me, but I can't think of one historical case where a new municipally funded football stadium led to MLS expansion... even years down the road. Any NFL stadium we build isn't going to be soccer specific, and that (next to being in the city of New York) is all but a requirement for being the 20th team.

The MLS talk from the Wilfs was a negotiating tactic, exactly like the new talk of moving the team now.

For my part, all my elected officials--from my city councilwoman up to the governor--are doing exactly what I want them to do: telling the Wilfs that if they want the money a new stadium will bring they have to be willing to make the investment or take a walk. I couldn't be happier with this process.

Plus, the sports business vacuum that would be left when the Vikings leave would create opportunities for teams and sports I like more to take more advantage of the market here.

Oh God please YES!

This is why WE need to start making Zellers phone ring!

Can someone explain to me again why the proposed closed roof, artificial turf stadium is a better option for an MLS franchise than the already built, open air, artificial turf stadium?

Same reason we won't see the Stars for a couple weeks yet.

April.

I'm just being flip there, obviously. I think the Bank would be a fine place to have MLS games almost 80% of the season. If Chicago can do it with grass we can do it artificial, I figure. I'm sure the dispute is field dimensions, goofy beer rules, and scheduling problems with the U.

First kick in MLS is March.

Timeout....

TCF Bank Stadium may soon see beer sales

http://www.kare11.com/news/article/973696/391/TCF-Bank-Stadium-may-soon-see-beer-sales

I just wish they would have put grass at TCF Bank stadium. In my opinion the whole project was half-assed by not installing grass.

Also, it would be hilarious to have the MLS play on the same surface that the Minnesota Gophers mens soccer team would play on... if they existed.

BQ: I know, I know... there's a club team.

So you all would honestly rather watch an MLS team indoors all throughout our beautiful summer because its a little chilly here in March?

Its colder in Montreal but I'm guessing nobody up there is wishing they had a dome.

Aren't the Impact playing at an indoor facility in the early part of the season? Or was that just the first game or two?

Unless you find different owners it's not going to be at TCF Stadium. The whole deal that makes this so attractive to the Wilfs to own a MLS team is they get another tenant for the stadium and they don't have to pay a dime more for them to play there.

If you look at the proposed stadium agreement, right where it mentions "NFL" 16 times it also mentions MLS 16 times. In fact in every instance it states "NFL/MLS". I am pretty sure the Wilfs don't want to own an MLS team just to own an MLS team. What sort of an MLS owner they would be is a whole other question. You just never know whether they would fund the team sufficiently or do a "Kraft job" on the team like has happened with the Patriots and Revolution.

As far as I know, this is only because the renovations to Saputo won't be completed on time.

BQ was telling me at the Parade park friendly that there had been plans to build a soccer stadium there called the Crystal Palace. So I looked it up: http://mplsparkwatch.org/node/524
Would've been cool.

No Stadium = Possibility of no NFL team (just the fact that they are being forced to use that card is a very bad sign).

No new stadium for the NFL team = No MLS team.

No future MLS Team opportunities = Few current NASL Stars buyers...
(*the best NASL investment feature is based on the team going up to D1 someday)

I would stop dreaming about what could happen in the future (especially when the NFL team that draws 70,000 fans can't get a new stadium build) and start working on keeping what you currently have.

This whole new stadium for the Vikings thing has quickly gone from exactly what Zygi wanted (he had even found the land, he had even offered to pay to help with the upgrade the roads) to now a bad deal of replacing the same stadium with nothing more then a few new expensive suites all for just $900,000,000.,.

I very poor new stadium deal for Minnesota indeed, and even that has little unforced local support. Is this really the best Minnesota can do in 2012 to help its biggest sports team become better? Pitiful lack of support by the state government and city officials for the largest sports team in the midwest! That is the message being send around the USA right now.

That is simply a very poor band-aide idea of a new stadium when you look at what you will get from spending $900,000,000 (the exact same thing, in the exact same spot). Those dollars spent could be the catalysts for a huge amount of private spending when done right. That is if that was a priority? Projects like this one can change a whole section of a city when done right. That is what Zigy had planned, that was what Minnesota turned down because it did not what to speed up the development of it roads (which need it now and will happen in the future anyway). Stupid stuff!

If I were the owner of an NFL team that draws 70,000 fans to games (in Minnesota) and I did get what I asked for... And, I did not even live there... And there were other very large cities with much better deals with much more local population and government support, then.... ??

Good luck with this one. And don't forget about what you already have, and will need to rescue soon.


If NFL's future is being forced to be brokered now, don't count on MLS just happening all on its own anytime soon.

The Blaine deal was the right one, and not enough people fought for it.

This drama is worse than the USL/NASL/USSF drama of a few years ago. I really do not see the Stars around much longer if we do not get an owner. Quite frankly, with the NASL adding Ottawa next year and having San Antonio in the central time zone, they really do not need the Stars to still have a league.

Lets make the phone ring at Speaker Zellers office!

By far the best "stadium plan/dream" was put up by Dean Johnson in downtown St Paul.

http://www.architectmagazine.com/mixed-use-development/thunder-stadium-st-paul-minn.aspx

http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2009/02/09...cture-magazine/


At least Dean knew how to dream big.

Here is the part of the MLS deal I just don't get

Zigy has a five year exclusive deal for an MLS team - if a new NFL stadium is built.

The Minneapolis plan calls for all non-NFL $ events to be given back to the Stadium.

How would that work?

Zigy is going to pay $75,000,000. for a MLS team and then give all the ticket sales back to Mpls?

Ahe... Nope!

Maybe he did that just so Mpls would not try to replace the Vikings leaving the downtown dome site with another new sport and team in downtown Mpls (hey guess what the Stars first game of 2012 was in the dome??). They did after all build a new downtown stadium for the Twins? They kinda negate losing all his NFL football dollars with that one move.

This new stadium should not be in downtown Mpls when they already have the 160+Twins games and all the Timberwolves games. The state does not revolve around downtown Mpls.

we would have the most bitchen mls team if this plan actually happened.

The latest, after NFL officials pay MN legislators and Gov Dayton a visit...

http://www.minnpost.com/politics-policy/2012/04/nfl-leaders-come-town-and-stadium-bill-comes-life

You didn't read it right. He gets the profits from a soccer team as well.

He looked into a MLS team and secured the rights while he was pushing his own plan out in Ramsey county.

This is what the Minneapolis plan says.

http://prod.static.vikings.clubs.nfl.com/assets/docs/stadium/DES-plan.pdf

PROPOSED OPERATIONS * The Authority and the team will approve a third-party operator to manage the stadium and parking facilities in accordance with the requirements of the Authority, including an operating plan and operating budget.

The Vikings will retain all revenues derived from NFL game-day operations of the stadium and parking facilities. The third-party operator will retain all revenues from ancillary events to offset stadium operating costs.

Third-party operator will be Zygi. Just like Vulcan Sports is the third-party operator at Qwest Field (or whatever the new place is called) in Seattle.

Zygi would get all revenues post basic operating costs for MLS games at the downtown stadium, sorry bro.

Right now there is talk of having a quick special session before July 4--assuming Speaker Zellers steps up the plate.

Yep, you're right he would just get a second lease from the Minnesota Stadium Authority for the second team and operate that business.

But why would he do that in Mpls? He has only the profits from the selling of seats and concessions form the Mpls stadium plan.


Just a bit strange that there has not really been any other talk of an MLS team (now that we have switched to the Mpls plan) and what that may also provide to the community in terms of jobs, development, and overall entertainment value being offered.

If you look at MLS's impact in Seattle that would be a very good argument for how the new stadium would be used in the long run for the community. Zygi has not worked very hard to push through the need for a new "multi-sports/multi-team" stadium. The Vikings have not even really brought it up lately?

If he was truly interested in starting a MLS team he would be selling the dollars spent in total (including 34+ MLS games) not just talking about the 10 Vikings games per year and what that produces.

I think the really big difference here is the other large chunk of property he would have gotten in the deal out in Ramsey county. This is where the MLS team idea came up.

http://archive.leg.state.mn.us/docs/Stadium_Plans/ramseycountyproposal.pdf

-The former TCAAP site in Arden Hills is 430 acres. Of this area, 260 acres are required for the stadium project, leaving 170 acres available for other mixed-use development. The U.S. Government offered the land for sale in its entirety and was unwilling to consider dividing the property to accommodate the stadium development. Accordingly, Ramsey County secured a commitment from the Minnesota Vikings to join the County as its development partner, assuming all costs and risks associated with the 170 acres

-The development of the Private Land is an important element of the redevelopment and revitalization efforts for the broader TCAAP site. The Stadium project is intended to act as the catalyst for the redevelopment and revitalization of the site. The Team shall retain development rights for at least eight years following the opening of the Stadium.

I really think this was his (and Ramsey County) motive to invest in a MLS team. He would have a complete development outside the Vikings and just selling seats. He would have other business that would have benefited from another team and 34+ more games at his development site.

VII. PUBLIC BENEFITS
-The Arden Hills site offers a unique opportunity for the State and Ramsey County to not only create a new home for the Minnesota Vikings, but to clean up the State’s largest Superfund site, speed improvements to congested highways, put thousands of Minnesotans to work now and return hundreds of acres to productice use. Our project will provide:
• $101 million in local and regional road improvements.
• Cleanup and reuse of the State’s largest Superfund site.
• An estimated $6.6 million per year to County, City and School property taxes.
• An estimated $3 million per year in State property taxes, to be used to reduce State debt service payments.
• $232 million in mixed-use development, as well as a catalyst for economic growth in the North Metro.
• The most jobs of any of the proposed stadium sites, because of highway improvements and related nearby development.
Ramsey County Proposal to build a People’s Stadium | January 12, 2012 13
• A facility for local colleges, high schools and amateur sports organizations to use for events more than 300 days a year.
• A suitable venue for such events as the Super Bowl and Final Four.
• A venue to attract other professional sports, such as soccer and lacrosse.
• A boost to the entertainment, restaurant and lodging industries in the region.
• A home for the Vikings for the next three decades.



These two items are missing from the Public Benefits list in the Mpls plan.

That is not what the actual plan says, because that is not the bill.
This is the text of the actual bill:



21.14 SubD 4.

Full text here: https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bin/getbill.php?number=HF2995&version=0&session=ls87

I see the MN Senate bought a clue today and started to advance the stadium bill. #VoteThemAllOut!

Wrong bill jackass(es)!


8.5 Subd. 13. Site. "Site" means the 430-acre parcel included within the Twin Cities
8.6 Army Ammunition Plant property in Arden Hills to be purchased by the county from the
8.7 United States of America.

Does it also include the Vikings operating a Soccer team in the Minneapolis site bill? That is the thing I'm questioning. I'm sure it does somewhere but it is sure not easy to find and no one has mentioned a MLS team for a long time now. That is my whole point. Without the other 260 acres of development that Zygi would invest in out in Arden Hills there is no big reason for him to go after a MLS team for Mpls.

WTF is this?

H.F. No. 3010, as introduced - 87th Legislative Session (2011-2012) Posted on Apr 23, 2012

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bin/bldbill.php?bill=H3010.0.html&session=ls87

A bill for an act providing for public ownership of the Minnesota Vikings.

Subd. 4. Acquisition; stock sale. Minnesota Vikings, Inc. shall acquire the
Minnesota Vikings Football Club, from the current ownership, at a price to be agreed upon between the two parties.

http://www.startribune.com/politics/statelocal/148539105.html

There was also other stadium-related jockeying Monday, some of it sure to face long odds. A House legislator introduced a plan to have the Vikings publicly owned...

A non-starter...

http://www.pbs.org/livelyhood/ourtowns/nflrules.html

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...h-league-rules/

The NFL will not accept public ownership of an NFL franchise. Period.

"So, unless the legislature is contemplating making the Vikings an Arena Football League franchise..." shrugs

That little old jersey collector

Me

"When it's all said and done, that's the moment when the talking has to stop." Jimmy Hill, former BBC "Match of the Day" analyst

Vikings stadium plan gets another chance at Capitol

Made it through last night and this time, back in the bill, are the renovations for the Target center which is what derailed the Mpls. city council members last time. So after last Friday's visit from the Commissioner and Dan Rooney things seem to be rolling again.

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2012/04/24/vikings-stadium/

Damn I wish we could get a retractable dome on this thing but I just don't see that happening unless the Vikes pony up the money and I'm not sure I see that happening either.

All 201 of them deserve to lost their jobs! They are a bunch of JACKASSES and in this context it is not a complement.

All was going to so well today at the hearing until St. Paul (yes my home town) and started complaining that if there was debt relief for Target center there should be for the Xcel Center as well. Now they want a Saints Ball Park amendment. The whole thing is going south fast and they now say they need to go back to the drawing board and see how they can reconfigure the plan to help St. Paul. Otherwise it looks like the St. Paul contingent will do everything in their power to strike it down.

Now I remember why I hate politics.

From a tweet from MPR's Tim Nelson, "GOP MnSEN Carla Nelson, on additions to #Vikings stadium bill: "This is just the kind of things MNs dislike... This is very dangerous."

And after all that the Viking stadium bill was approved by Senate Jobs and Economic Development Committee. The Vikes Lester Bagley said there are still differences that have to be worked out between the house and senate.

There is going to be a fixed dome, which means no MLS or international soccer, let's be honest about that.
It's not just me wanting a stadium for a sport I care about (and thus only caring about it if it helps me), I can't understand why we should get behind a stadium that will be used by a major sport 8 times a year.

The Whitecaps play, more or less, inside a dome stadium. Sure, it "opens" up, but it still feels like a warehouse.

An MLS team will play where ever someone with a gazillion dollars pay for one to play.

That's not necessarily true.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/141093003.html

Dan Courtemanche, the MLS Executive VP of Communications, said "the new stadium -- though not ideal -- would pass the test."

Why is Minnesota viable? There are four key criteria the MLS looks at for possible expansion targets, Courtemanche said: committed local ownership with resources (Montreal paid a $40 million expansion fee and the figure will continue to rise); a stadium plan -- preferably but not necessarily in a soccer-specific stadium; good market size; and a history of fan support.

"If you follow that model, then clearly the Twin Cities would be very attractive," Courtemanche said.

Well more than 8 games when they make it to the playo-...

Ah, I tried, I just couldn't finish that sentence without laughing.

So is a roofed stadium really a dealbreaker for the MLS? Is that a rule of theirs or just a strongly stated preference?

8 games AND a monster truck rally

MLS has already addressed this issue a roofed stadium is not a deal breaker.

For perspective, check out CenturyLink Field's schedule, minus concerts and Huskies football games:

Tues./Wed./Thurs., July 31-Aug. 2 -- CCL group stage?
Sunday, Aug. 5 -- Sounders vs. Los Angeles Galaxy, 7 p.m. (MLS regular season)
Tues./Wed., Aug. 7-8 -- U.S. Open Cup final?
Saturday, Aug. 11 -- Seahawks vs. Tennessee Titans, 7 p.m. (NFL preseason)
Saturday, Aug. 18 -- Sounders vs. Vancouver Whitecaps FC, 1 p.m. (MLS regular season)
Tues./Wed./Thurs., Aug. 21-23 -- CCL group stage?
Tues./Wed., Aug. 28-29 -- CCL group stage?
Thursday, Aug. 30 -- Seahawks vs. Oakland Raiders, 7 p.m. (NFL preseason)
Saturday, Sept. 8 -- Sounders vs. Chivas USA, 1 p.m. (MLS regular season)
Sunday, Sept. 16 -- Seahawks vs. Dallas Cowboys, 1:05 p.m. (NFL regular season)
Tues./Wed./Thurs., Sept. 18-20 -- CCL group stage?
Sunday, Sept. 23 -- Sounders vs. San Jose Earthquakes, 7 p.m. (MLS regular season)
Monday, Sept. 24 -- Seahawks vs. Green Bay Packers, 5:30 p.m. (NFL regular season)
Tues./Wed., Sept. 25-26 -- CCL group stage?
Sunday, Oct. 7 -- Sounders vs. Portland Timbers FC, 6 p.m. (MLS regular season)
Sunday, Oct. 14 -- Seahawks vs. New England Patriots, 1:05 p.m. (NFL regular season)
Wednesday, Oct. 17 -- Sounders vs. Real Salt Lake, 7 p.m. (MLS regular season)
Sunday, Oct. 21 -- Sounders vs. FC Dallas, 6 p.m. (MLS regular season)
Tues./Wed./Thurs., Oct. 23-25 -- CCL group stage?
Sunday, Nov. 4 -- Seahawks vs. Minnesota Vikings, 1:05 p.m. (NFL regular season)eason)
Sunday, Nov. 11 -- Seahawks vs. New York Jets, 1:05 p.m. (NFL regular season)
Saturday, Dec. 1 -- 2012 MLS Cup?
Sunday, Dec. 9 -- Seahawks vs. Arizona Cardinals, 1:15 p.m. (NFL regular season)
Sunday, Dec. 23 -- Seahawks vs. San Francisco 49ers, 1:15 p.m. (NFL regular season)
Sunday, Dec. 30 -- Seahawks vs. St. Louis Rams, 1:15 p.m. (NFL regular season)

Deal-breaker for USMNT.
It is not a deal-breaker for MLS, you're right, officially. But can you imagine trying to build a rabid fan-base around a team that plays indoors in the summer. ugh.

Seamonster: not being facetious, what perspective does that give us? Just unclear of what you're insinuating.

I want to see the Vikings stay here, and I'm not even a Viking fan. But living in St Paul, I absolutely agree with the stand the St Paul delegation took. If a stadium bill is going to magically tack on money to improve the Target Center so that they can basically take events away from the XCel Center, that more or less directly affects me as a taxpayer. Sadly, it is kind of a zero sum game and events that earn revenue at the Target Center benefit Mpls tax wise and not St Paul. If they want to pass that other idea that was discussed to create a mega-regional stadium authority and manage them both together and not compete, great. But until that happens, I can't see how a legislator from St Paul could reasonably support that Target Center bailout plan. And it has absolutely nothing to do with the new Vikings stadium.

As far as the dome goes, it's dumb. From a cost perspective, and also from a football perspective. Just play outside and stop whining about the cold. If Green Bay and Chicago (and Cleveland, Buffalo, Denver, etc) can play outside, the Vikings can too. Bud Grant and Jim Marshall agree.

I dunno, we've all seen what a bit of wind and rain does to our attendances early in the season. I'd always rather be outside, but that's not the case for a lot of people who aren't as hardy as we are.

It's not the Vikings that want a dome it's the state government that wants it. Because the an outdoor football stadium would only be used 8 times a year plus any possible playoff games. Wilf has even said he wanted an outdoor stadium but knew it would be a hard sell in this state.

Seattle is the closest to what Minneapolis will have for MLS / Football teams that play in the same stadium. Lots of home dates and potential for even more if MLS team is successful.

I don't see how scheduling is even worthy of concern. If Vikings/Gophers/Twins worked, Vikings/MLS will work.

The dome actually has hundreds of events per year. I don't see that changing with a new stadium.

I don't think an enclosed stadium helps but it certainly isn't an end all to having soccer here.

I didn't know that the Vikings wanted an open air stadium. That's actually somewhat surprising. I did know that they wanted a retractable dome for the Vikings but also for MLS.

Unless something has changed, the Target Center money is coming from a reassignment of the additional sales tax thing that was added years ago to fund the convention center. No one outside of Minneapolis should be complaining about it. The tax was set to expire, if my understanding is correct, but now we'll get to continue it to pay for Target Center.

Great news tonight on the stadium! Now all we need is fireworks...

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2012/04/25/winkler_stadium/

Do I spy a soccer field for the community to towards the right? Maybe a practice field for a MLS team? (I totally just made that up).

It does look like a great place for a Dark Clouds vs. Section 8 friendly.

Slightly off-topic, but why don't we have a friendly with another team? Maybe Edmonton for the Flyover Cup finale? With enough planning (gasp), I think we could make it happen.

I think both are brilliant ideas! i would love to be apart of a Dark Clouds team verses another supporter group. we could use the fantasy camp as tryout/training.

MLS is being discussed right now in the legislature. Question to Bagley: since a lot of people like to watch soccer outside, does this mean it will be a retractable roof?

I turned this on when a friend told me about it, so I missed the beginning. Here is what I gleaned from it. The Sen. Finance committee was talking about the bill. Then Sen. Nienow made a motion to stricken the parts from the bill that gave the Vikes exclusivity to an MLS franchise in the stadium. This meant an extended discussion about soccer while Lester Bagley was testifying. Several senators were excited about soccer. Before I turned it on, I think they were talking about how many people they estimated would come (200k) and how much money. This caused someone to make the above comment about the roof. Bagley didn't really answer the question, but it was pointed out by someone else that the roof is the Vikings' responsibility (if they want it, they pay for it).
Also, someone asked about the soccer field on the right hand side of the photo and it is a general area/park that is planned. The soccer field is I think a creative addition, not actually part of a specific plan.

OMG that actually sounds like they are using some planning skills before spending $900,000,000 of our money. Don't tell me a state government in the midwest actually can do good work?

Well it's about time they think about what might happen in the future.

So far all the "stadium plan" has been is just a way (the cheapest one at that) to keep the Vikings in Minnesota. Yet, if you look 10-15 years out (some people might call that "looking out" part of thought -planning) there most likely will be some form of a soccer team that would need a place for 15 -20,000+ fans to watch 20-25 games a year.

Why are they not factoring the impact of those dollars into how the stadium that will last for 30-40 years might be a benefit to more than just the Vikings?

This stadium really does need a retractable roof (i'm not even going to get into the grass issue because I'm hoping it will be retrofitted someday before 2022). Without the open roof and natural weather on the playing field, watching soccer there during the next 30 summers will be done in a low second class soccer stadium, just as bad as watching the Twins play indoors was for the last 30 years...

It might just stop the chances of an MLS team coming to MN because other locals that are better equipped to fight for a team (an open space to build a better soccer specific stadium) would be able to offer a better fan experience to the MLS.

A bad stadium could ruin our chances at getting a team with 20,000 fans for a team that may play 20-25 home games over the course of a summer. It may ruin chances for international friendlies. It may ruin a chance at becoming a World Cup game site in 2026...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ_R-G_i4Xk

By the time they rip down dome #II you will be amazed at what else has been built during that time. 30-40 years that thing will be here as your one and only home for pro sports in Minneapolis/Minnesota. Are you sure that is really good enough? Why is no one in Minnesota asking the questions about what that stadium will be seen as in just 15 years?




It's a DeLorean!

I get the sense that if the state ponies up quickly, Zigi will kick in some money for a retractable roof.

By the way, be sure to call, and email Speaker Zellers. My sources tell me he is holding his finger to the wind and being a, well, politican in his vote. Tell him to vote yes!

To add fuel to the grass/artificial turf debate...

http://www.landscapemanagement.net/athle...d-cup-socc-9725

It appears, from this source and others, that artificial turf will not be much of a factor in deciding future venues for major FIFA events, including the World Cup.

"Carry on!" chirps

That little old jersey collector

Me

"You could cut the atmosphere with a knife, it was so electric." Brian Marjoribanks, Sportswriter for the Scottish Daily Mail.

First, its $400mil state funds.

Second, think of how old Fenway is. Good design is good design and Dome uno was a child of terrible late 70s/early 80s post-modern architectural awfulness.

RFK stadium (a baseball stadium) is the home to the MLS team that has the most stars on its jersey (DC United).

That stadium is older than I am. Be careful what you wish for.
Maybe a multi use stadium works well for soccer in Seattle, but it does not work well everywhere for soccer and MLS knows that.

This is at the widely loved Target Field:



Obstructed views are inevitable.

Point being the Metrodome is a terrible 70s design. 30 years from now I'm certain stadiums will have improvements but we're a bit further along in understanding what makes a good stadium for the size of crowd expected per sport.

The problem with DC United playing at RFK isn't because its multi-purpose, its that its dang near falling apart and DC United has to pay way too much rent to play there.

I don't think anyone has or should think an ownership group that doesn't include Zigy is gonna be able to put an MLS team in this new stadium.

Some additional information here:

http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2012/04/26...mls-team-maybe/

When Barra Brava finally breaks those stands it's going to be freaking awesome if nobody gets hurt too bad.

Awesome article BQ

I joined in with Barra Brava a few years ago when DC United was playing Cruz Azul. It was beyond freaking awesome jumping up and down on those bleachers. I would love to go back out there and watch another match.

I know the first player who hit a home run at RFK.

Fascinating look at the inside politics of the stadium bill the last few days.

http://www.minnpost.com/politics-policy/...lative-politics

I think the point is for everyone on this board that we have ideals of a MN MLS team in a SSS with an owner who has lots of money and loves soccer. That won't happen in the next 10 years. So, what will we take? Obviously we're pushing to have soccer be a major part of these plans. I don't want a dome, I said that just last week, but I'll take a dome if it means an MLS team. I'm happy that this is being debated and that we get to see state senators talking excitedly about MLS. That is a huge step forward.

Edit: to make me sound less annoying (tough ask)

I will take an MLS team anyway the come.

I will not fall for jw7 and his negative nancy assumptions.

That is what he does best. It is actually kind of endearing, especially when you talk with him in person and you can do the "waaaah-waaaaaaaa" sound in your head.

LOL.

Jeff- you going to Tampa at all this season?

I'll take whatever team, be it MLS or the defending NASL champions.

Agreed.

Support what we have.

Fight for more.

Yep, I'm the only one being "negative" about the lack of planning in the planning process Rook...

3:30PM CT, 4/26/12
http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_20488324/vikings-stadium-bill-amendments-be-proposed

"I think there are a number of things that are very troubling about this proposal, there are alternatives that make more sense and we ought to pursue them instead of rushing through a bill that has been in the works apparently for some time but not gotten very much public scrutiny till just the last several days," Hann said.

Rook has been in attack mode lately, living in the Northern Florida swamps will do that to ya after a while.

Sorry Rook, I grew up during a time when we actually questioned things. I guess the high school and collage teachers of today just don't teach that kind of thinking anymore.

I bet you do hear a lot of that "waaaah-waaaaaaa" sound in your head everyday Rook. That is the same sound a sheep makes.

The point is, JW, that you're pretending you are the lone voice of reason and that everyone else in the world has Zygi's face and a non-retractable roof tattooed on their asses. A brief glance through any of the words in this forum will show that most people have already registered our skepticism. What should we do, stand around and whine to each other?
Being skeptical, doesn't mean walking around and pissing on everyone. And being hopeful doesn't mean we're idiots.

When I see something I disagree with I say something, just like you are now.
I have also been on both sides of this issue.
No one pissed on anyone, no one called anyone an idiot.

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

is my soundtrack when i walk into a room and teach kids useless facts.

funny, thats the same thing i think while im teaching and my students are not listening to me.

So the Vikings new stadium moves forward in the state capital this week, MLS in Minnesota is discussed at the capital, it's announced Pep is stepping down as the manager of Barca at the end of the season is it all a coincidence?

The senate tax committee hears it next. Not sure when (might even be today, but I haven't checked). It might be worth sending some notes to some legislators. http://www.senate.leg.state.mn.us/committees/committee_bio.php?cmte_id=1019

It's actually today at 3PM, so emailing probably won't do much good.

I read on Twitter that Manny is in line to be the next coach of Barca. This conflicts with reports that Manny will be the coach of the new MLS team that will be playing inside a fixed roof stadium with artificial grass and a beer dispensing exploading scoreboard.

http://www.startribune.com/politics/statelocal/149170525.html

The agreement to build a new Minnesota Vikings football stadium in Minneapolis features a key difference from the plan to build the project in Ramsey County and even from the Minnesota Twins' new Target Field.

Ramsey County officials said making a public stadium authority, rather than the Vikings, responsible for cost overruns was part of an attempt to lure the team back to Minneapolis. State officials "were under immense pressure to convince the Vikings to turn their attention" to Minneapolis, said Lee Mehrkens, Ramsey County's finance director.

He said that under Ramsey County's now-discarded stadium plan -- which also called for a public stadium authority -- the public's exposure on operating cost overruns would have been capped. In Minneapolis, the cap is on the Vikings' exposure.

...state officials have avoided a "long history" of mistakes public officials in other NFL cities have made...


http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2012/04/27/vikings-stadium-financing-plan-q-and-a/

Gotta admit that these fans make us soccer fans look really cool by comparison.

Any news today?

I missed it today and haven't seen anything about it.

Speaker Zellers continues to show a lack of leadership. #Disgusted

Sounds like the Senate and House will be voting on their respective bills this weekend. Rumor is that they have the votes!

Sunday is the day. Here we go!

Seems the republicans are holding the bill hostage so they can get more:

A) Concessions from Gov. Dayton concerning a small business bill and over all budget cuts over a bonding bill

B) Trying to get themselves move attention by killing the bill which several senators seem to be quite proud of being part of. Sen. Scott Nienow, R-Cambridge being one of the main culprits.

As stated above, they seem to have the votes from both republican and democrats to get it done. The question will be, will it ever be allowed to get voted on. Right now it's not looking good but Dayton is trying to remain positive.

Minnpost article

Somehow this will be spun to be the fault of Mark Dayton.

Can't wait for that one...

I know it is almost pointless to follow a play-by-play of the stadium debate, but the newest idea is to save money by having no roof. http://www.startribune.com/politics/statelocal/149693115.html
Awesome for soccer!
Now, this will not happen, but it's just the latest idea.

Did you know....

The Minnesota Dragons play their home games in the Metrodome.
http://mndragons.com/

Until about 2 minutes ago, I have never heard of them.

Just going to ask the obvious question here. How do they pay for this and how did they get a dance team?

Thank you for plunging me into the depths of terrible web design.

clearly they used the money set aside for a developer on rent.

not to mention a terrible team name... the dragons?!?

The US Open Cup showed me that my hometown has a team in Round 1 that has probably the most amazing name and logo ever. Ladies and Gentlemen, may I present FC Sonic Lehigh Valley. http://www.fcsonic.org/

That is pretty flippin' cool. I have never been to a Sonic Resturant, so I will have to go check it out.

Nice! Way better than the Lehigh Valley In and Outs.

Christ, now I'm hungry.

From our own Demko:

http://politicsinminnesota.com/2012/05/d...vote-by-design/

I am at a CLE today, and I learned that the State Capitol Building under MN Statute is considered a "recreational facility." Seriously, I am not making this up.

At any rate, from reading this article, it demonstrates why Dayton should have been engaging the House/Senate leadership from the beginning and not trying to cut his own "deal." I think that this plan sounds more pallitable and removes gambling from the equation.

Yep, at this point, I'm just going to close my eyes and cross my fingers. I have no idea what's going on even as I understand what's going on.

The stadium plan is finally getting a floor vote in the state Legislature on Monday.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2012/5/3/2996664/vikings-stadium-plan-vote

Whether or not the plan can pass, will depend on Republican votes in both chambers.

The bill is still being held hostage to other demands.

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2012/05/03/senator-vikings-stadium-out-construction-bill/


Senate Majority Leader David Senjem said he's not sure if the Vikings bill has sufficient Senate support.

"The fate of the stadium is now in the governor's hands," said House Speaker Kurt Zellers.

Zellers says he opposes the bill and isn't sure it will pass.

Zellars left open the possibility of further negotiations with the Governor and the DFL party.

So if the business owners get their tax breaks -then they will let you go to 10 football games on Sunday afternoons each year. If they don't get their business tax breaks -then you don't get a new stadium and don't get to watch any football at all in Minnesota.

Gotta love those business owners, their puppets, and their use of the leverage they paid for in their local government...

I thought this issue was about the public and what they want, not the business owners and what they want?

You know how messed up this issue is when all of us with huge political differences are dumbfounded by the same things!

All I want for Christmas is a new Vikings stadium with a retractable roof and natural grass playing surface, along with a MLS team to top it off!

New developments to the stadium bill:

If the business owners get tax breaks then the stadium gets a retractable roof and real grass.

www.thisisfunkedup.org


By the way who makes up the shortfall from those business tax breaks for a state with a rather large deficit at the moment?

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2011/10/06/state-likely-to-face-another-deficit/

Stinson's analysis is sobering news for Dayton and the Republican-controlled Legislature. The two sides spent the first seven months of the year arguing over the best way to erase the state's $5 billion projected budget deficit.

After a three-week government shutdown, the two sides agreed on a mix of spending cuts, borrowing against future tobacco payments and delaying payments to schools. Now, they'll be forced to make another round of hard choices.

Another new development in the stadium bill:

No new stadium for 70,000 fans unless home mortgage interest rates are lowered and credit card interest rates are lowered. The banks can easily make up the difference by reducing the huge amount of new credit card offers/junk mail they send out each and everyday.

www.thisiswhatshouldbehappening.org

The new amendments were demanded by nice people who were elected by real people and their votes.

Flash!

Brilliant news!

In an astonishing breakthrough, an agreement has been reached on a new stadium with retractable roof, real grass playing surface and a surrounding urban redevelopment plan that includes a soccer themed gastropub and a totally self-sustaining "Peoples' Green Space". The project will not rely on government financing at all, with 1/4 of the costs covered by the Vikings ownership in concert with the NFL and the rest to be covered by a 1% surcharge on any economic activity within the new "Development Zone" and money collected from Vikings players that are fined for infractions of state and federal laws.

In a related story, the Wilfs have signed Lionel Messi to a 10 year contract in anticipation of their acquiring an MLS franchise. The Wilfs are rumored to have arranged a loan to the Minnesota Stars FC until the organization is purchased by the Wilfs to serve as their MLS franchise.

Further details here: http://www.candyland.com

"Now all I have to do is figure out a way to work some furry-footed elves, teenage vampires and swordplay into this and I've got myself a moneytree" figures

That little old jersey collector

Me

"The dice are stacked against them." - Theo Foley, former Arsenal assistant manager

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to veto those extravagances when we have a $5,000,000,000.00 state deficit.

We have already made cuts, now everybody needs to pay their fair share.

Kudos to Gov. Dayton for vetoing the business tax relief bill and basically killing the chances for votes on the stadium. #LackOfLeadership

It will be a sad thing if the republicans now veto the stadium just because their business buddies did not get their tax breaks. Kinda tit for tat I guess, interesting that so many have called the stadium a hostage to other items in the session. I would call it a type of political blackmail...

The DFL will vote for the stadium, Dayton hes been the main supporter. The stink bomb will not land on him. The GOP is the one that will kill it, and that is what will be remembered years from now. They are the ones who tied these two bills together. That poor use of planning/strategy will also be remembered years from now. The vote on the stadium will be recorded into the state's history.


I bet ya $100. your GOP buddies do in fact vote for the Vikings stadium bill.

I love that the Star Tribune only NOW finally got around to actually covering the soccer aspect of this debate. http://www.startribune.com/politics/statelocal/150253615.html

Thanks for podting this article. This is a great item to contact our legislators about.

I'm amazed by the amount of soccer experts posting comments to that article.

I'm amazed that facts such as the franchise fees being $40 million aren't checked. I hope they do more of this kind of reporting and I emailed Mike telling him as much.

I had a good conversation with some of my legislator friends this morning. The votes will be there, however, Dayton better hope that the DFL wins one house in the upcoming elections or they MN GOP is going to dig their heals in on a lot of stuff. Dayton has had a series of stupid vetos, including a veto that modify some legislative districts--the courts in their "wisdom" drew a line threw an apartment complex in one district and excluded 12 people in one town in another case. As my dad always said, "Son, you can't fix stupid!"

It is a good day to e-mail your representatives and tell them what you think.



e-mail lists

House of Representatives
http://www.house.leg.state.mn.us/members/housemembers.asp

Senate
http://www.senate.leg.state.mn.us/members/member_list.php?sort=D&ls=#header



You can find who represents your area here
http://www.gis.leg.mn/OpenLayers/districts/

There are two links/maps



*Make sure you include something about wanting the provisions for also having an MLS team play in the stadium.

I just hope that Gov. Dayton does not change his mind on the stadium after it passes and veto it. He has a proven track record of doing this over the course of the past few weeks. People better call Gov. Dayton too!

The May 5th version of the bill sure does mention soccer a lot more...

19.21
Subd. 4. Lease or use agreements; revenues, payments.
A lease or use agreement shall include rent and other fees and expenses to be paid by the NFL team. The authority shall agree to provide in the lease or use agreement for the NFL team to receive all NFL and team event related revenues, including but not limited to, suite revenues, advertising, concessions, signage, broadcast and media, and club seat revenue. The agreement shall also provide that all naming rights to the stadium are retained by the NFL team, subject to the approval of the name or names by the authority consistent with those criteria set out in the lease or use agreement. The agreement shall provide for the authority to receive all general ticket revenues and other event revenues other than from NFL team games, NFL team-owned major league soccer games, and other NFL team events agreed to by the authority.


21.25
Subd. 15. Major league soccer.
The authority shall, for five years after the first NFL team home game is played in the stadium, grant the NFL team the exclusive right to establish major league soccer at the stadium. The authority and the NFL team may enter into an agreement providing the terms and conditions of such an arrangement, provided:

(1) if any of the NFL team owners whose family owns at least three percent of the NFL team purchases full or partial ownership in a major league soccer franchise, such franchise may play in the stadium under a use agreement with similar terms as are applicable to the NFL team at no additional rent, but including a provision of payment of game-day costs and reasonable marginal costs incurred by the authority as a result of the major league soccer team; and

(2) capital improvements required by a major league soccer franchise must be financed by the owners of the major league soccer team, unless otherwise agreed to by the authority.


*Wondering why Zigy's guys put off a scheduled meeting with the MLS over the weekend though?

Unrelated, and a different bill, but we have at times talked about how and where the NSC gets its money...

http://www.house.leg.state.mn.us/amend/a12-1013.pdf

19.28 $375,000
Sec. 14. AMATEUR SPORTS
To the Minnesota Amateur Sports Commission to replace HVAC heating and cooling units in the Indoor Sports Hall at the National Sports Center in Blaine.

I have the day off and am watching the debate on the Benson, M amendment to the Lanning bill (HF 2810). It is about the funding source of gambling.

http://www.senate.leg.state.mn.us/bills/billinf.php?ls=87&billnum=HF%202810

Live coverage (click on Live Event link)
http://www.house.leg.state.mn.us/htv/schedule.asp

This is a bad way to build a public stadium, no doubt about it.
Kindy shady way the site came back to Minneapolis...


Issues being debated:
-Gambling as a source of funding
-A new site selection process

Back to the game...

If this Benson amendment has just focused on user fees,gambling, and other funding issues and not tried to open the location of the stadium up again, I might support it.

Benson dropped the site selection part of the amendment and the alternative way of funding the stadium bill was voted down.

Now the rep from Circle Pines wants all the games to be broadcast free, with no blackouts for the "People's Stadium" plan. She talked about the NFL planning to put all the games on a pay per view channel someday. She talked about ticket prices going up in the new stadium.

She's getting beat up pretty bad on the house floor because she put up an incomplete plan on how to do it.

It was a great idea for all the people of Minnesota.

It went down faster then the Titanic... The votes are strongly behind the NFL money, that should be clear now. The Lanning Bill will most likely pass, this has been nothing but a big show for the local reps to explain why they had to spend the money for the Vikings.

An amendment to the bill by rep Simon from Mpls to change the amount of money the owner has to pay if they decide to sell the team after the stadium is built. It also changes where that money would go (in to the general fund not to the stadium authority). That bill passed easily.

Simon who's father was an pro athlete agent made the estimate that if the team was sold after the stadium bill went through the owner could make about $400,000,000+ for owning the team for less than 8 years.

Yup.

Yup.

I did not see your comments before deciding to delete my remarks... Sorry, it was just a political opinion and I was trying not to include those. I see you may have agreed with my views of pull tab gambling being a very regressive tax form collection method after the stadium is paid for.

http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2012/05/08...s-on-to-senate/

Well, good bye to MLS in MN.
http://www.startribune.com/politics/statelocal/150646225.html

So it's a bit complicated but from everything I could figure (yes, I was watching it) the State Senate added an amendment tonight, striking the MLS exclusivity portion for the Wilfs.

What exactly this means is unclear, but I am guessing there would not be a lot of incentive anymore for the Wilfs to bring a team in as (again I'm assuming here) that they would no longer get to use the facility rent free.

The argument that had come up in both the House and now the Senate was if the Wilfs were willing to put forth $40 million for a MLS franchise (yes, we know its actually a lot more than that) and if they are paying such a big chunk of money for the stadium, why wouldn't we want the Wilfs to bring in a MLS team and get their rent free since they will be bringing in even more business to the city of Mpls and State of MN by having another 20+ dates in the stadium.

The argument against was that it was a monopoly, which in essence it was.

I'm not sure if that means they can still add it back in during committee but I doubt it. I'm just not sure it has enough interest from anyone to go to support it.

On the bright side, the odds that someone might want to buy the Stars went up a little bit.

So I've also been in contact with our friend Demko who is at the capitol. I asked him the question concerning my last paragraph from above. I guess I need a refresher course in politics 101, but because it was approved in the House the MLS portion is still alive even though the Senate struck it down. I guess if the stadium bill actually makes it through the senate the MLS clause would then have to be decided in committee. (I think I said that right)

If they screw up the rest of the stadium and the Vikings leave the Stars will be an amazing investment. #onlyfutbolintown

Just got clarification from Vikes PR person Jeff Anderson. He confirmed with me that indeed the MLS portion will still have a chance in conference committee IF the bill passes the Senate tonight.

It's almost as if the more closely you watch the government do its work, the less likely you are to really understand what is real. I think that works to the advantage to the reps and senators who have the real power in this bill and are really running the show outside the public's view where most of the real deals happen.

I think the founding fathers used to call it a government run by the people for the people. I have no idea what they would call what happens in government now?

What comes out of the committee at this point is a guess at best, but I think it will be much more like how the bill started with both sides giving up some things.

One question is: what does anyone in the government gain by killing that portion of the bill? What would they trade (keep in some extra cost to the vikings) to put the MLS part back in for Zigy (give more potential future profit for Zigy)?

Another question is: how big of a priority is the MLS team to Zigy? What does he think a future MLS team's worth will be to him someday? I don't think we will know that until the whole thing is done.

The MLS part of the bill is a large future benefit to the owners, the state, the city and the local businesses There is risk involved (only to the owner) and the future profits are not that clear in todays world. There really is no downside to letting him try to start another sport in a location that is being built for the sole reason of the public users having a bit of fun in their lives over the next 30 years.

More is better!

Well, it's Senator Warren Limmer of Maple Grove who took out the MLS exclusivity clause. Thanks BQ for checking on the other parts.

To me, it's not a monopoly. It gives the Vikes 5 years to bring a team in and the incentive is that it's rent free.
I was thinking apocalyptically at first about this clause being stricken, but do you think there is a bright side to this? If the MLS parts are taken out, then anyone can come in with an MLS team (meaning, the Vikes will have to compete for it) and having to pay rent means that it'll be harder to take the team for granted by just watching money roll in and never spending any.
That's the best happy side of this.
Obviously, we're not going to get the dream situation of an individual owner coming in and bringing a shiny SSS with him/her, but hopefully we can get something here.

At 11:45 tonight the Minnesota State Senate approved a new Vikings stadium. Details will now need to be hammered out between House and Senate members. As stated previously, the MLS portion of the bill could very well end up back in the bill...or not. The drama continues.

I honestly think Zigi fould careless about bringing soccer to MN. To me I think it is was just an idea thrown in there to make it sound more appealing to the legislature. If he is serious, there is no need for the provision-he would spend the money and get a franchise. I will not beleive he is interested in soccer until I see him at a Stars match, beating a drum and leading the Dark Clouds in the "Minnesota" chant.

Now I am not certain Zygi is serious about bringing a soccer team to the state; but I do know there is no way MLS is gonna have anymore of their clubs paying rent to play in an NFL stadium.

I like the part where someone suggests that the place in Blaine who owns the semi-pro team might be interested in bringing in an MLS team. Could it be our legislators debate issues they know nothing about? I have to go lie down...

What was even worse GregX, is I excluded the name because I wasn't exactly sure who it was although I think I know. What I do know is she was a representative from Blaine. So ya, way to know what's going on in your district there Senator.

I sent a message to the senator from Blaine, introducing her to the team.
Better late than never, right?

IT"S TIME TO RALLY THE TROOPS!

You would think this might be a good time for people who support the MLS part of this bill to send a flood of e-mails to the committee.

Come on Dark Clouds, MN4MLS, IMS, du Nord... time to rally that organization of soccer fans you have sitting right under your nose...

I do not think the conference committee memebers have been named. I can check on that one.

Per @T_Lidholm: Vikings stadium conf. committee: Hoppe, Lanning, Morrow for House and Rosen, Reinert and Ingebrightsen #mnleg

We need to something other than just sit by and watch our chance get thrown back into the lake like a Walleye Pike that is too small for consumption.

Show them that we want pro soccer to stay in Minnesota.

Get these e-mail addresses out to the soccer public ASAP guys...

House
Joe Hoppe - rep.joe.hoppe@house.mn
Morrie Lanning - rep.morrie.lanning@house.mn
Terry Morrow - rep.terry.morrow@house.mn

Senate
Julie Rosen - sen.julie.rosen@senate.mn]e-mail
Roger Reinert - sen.roger.reinert@senate.mn]e-mail
Bill Ingebrightensen - sen.bill.ingebrigtsen@senate.mn]e-mail




An example:

Subject:
Support for a MLS team to play in the new stadium

Hi ____,

I'm in support for an MLS team to play in the new stadium. I don't think that part of the bill should have been taken out of the bill with a new amendment. There is a great potential for professional (division 1/MLS) soccer in this state again someday.

Zigy will be spending a lot of money to start up the team and a MLS team is not a proven money maker at this point. He will be the only one taking a large risk. The state should help him create something new for the people of Minnesota.

-Name
-Address

http://www.mls4mn.com/the-final-countdown/

If Soccer Boy can send a political e-mail that JW7 drafted, well so can you. Do not delay, send it today!!!

Also, all of you twitter people and facebook people should retweet or share the blog post I put up. Mayor Rybak already RT it.

This is the weirdest day ever when JW7, Soccerboy, and MNNiceFC send political messages in agreement. I think this forum is going to explode.

"Misery acquaints a man with strange bedfellows" - Shakespeare


Now all we need is for Bernie Slavin to join in...

In the end we all do share a common goal.

6:12 PM CT
http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_205...rce=most_viewed

...the House GOP spokeswoman said key lawmakers were having conversations about the bill but that no conference committee meeting had been called.

Shortly before 5:30 p.m., House Majority Leader Matt Dean said on the House floor that the House would recess till 10 p.m. and could take up the stadium bill if it's through the conference committee process.

The stadium conferees all voted for the stadium bill on the floor of their respective chambers.

Rosen said after Tuesday night's vote that she planned during the conference committee process to ask the Vikings to put up more money toward the stadium deal.

She said negotiations will start at the extra $25 million the Senate is asking from the team. The House has asked the team to kick in another $105 million.

Vikings vice president Lester Bagley said... the Vikings remain open to the negotiation process.



7:37 PM CT
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/41903/vikings-stadium-final-steps-tonight

Good evening, everyone. Just wanted to set the table for you as best we can on what might be another late night of Minnesota Vikings stadium intrigue.

The legislative conference committee is scheduled to open its formal discussions on merging the two stadium bills at 10 p.m. ET.




*This is not over yet you can still have an effect by e-mailing the committee members if you have not done so yet.
12560

If The MLS wording does get included in the final bill, the MLS team will happen quickly.


http://www.senate.leg.state.mn.us/journals/2011-2012/20120508117.pdf#Page223

Update May 8th, 2012

pages 7173-7174
Subd. 16. Major league soccer
(1) if any of the NFL team owners whose family owns at least three percent of the NFL team purchases full or partial ownership in a major league soccer franchise, such franchise may play in the stadium under a use agreement with similar terms as are applicable to the NFL team at no additional rent for five years after the first NFL team home game is played in the stadium...


(b) Five years after the first NFL team home game is played in the stadium, the authority and the NFL team shall enter into an agreement providing for rental payments.

http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_205...rce=most_viewed

So Rosen and Ingebrigtsen and Lanning and Hoppe, for example, could not all be in the same room together without establishing a quorum and constituting a meeting of the conference committee, which are open to the public under legislative rules.

http://www.senate.leg.state.mn.us/schedu...mp;ss_year=2012
Conference Committee on H.F. 2958

CONFEREES:
SENATE:Rosen; Ingebrigtsen; Reinert - HOUSE: Lanning; Morrow; Hoppe
05/09/2012 Meeting scheduled for 09:00 PM in Room 15 Capitol



*If I was still in Minnesota, I would go to this public meeting tonight. If they passed a bill through the committee without putting back the MLS team part of the bill, I would lob one of my soccer shoes at them. That would make the soccer news tomorrow.

9:11 PM CT
Live feed on now, meeting has not started yet.
10:00 PM CT start

http://www.senate.mn/media/flashvideo.php


Get to know the committee members

House
*Morrie Lanning Moorhead (R)
Terry Morrow St Peter (DFL)
Joe Hoppe Chaska (R)
* House bill sponsor

Senate
**Julie Rosen Fairmont (R)
Bill Ingebrigtsen Alexandria (R)
Roger Reinhart Duluth (DFL)
** Senate bill sponsor


At 10:05 the live feed from the committee room (the meeting had not started) was dropped and replaced with a live feed from the empty Senate floor... ??

Now we have the Senate floor starting up again...

Why? Is the next New York team going to play here?

Zygi Wilf does live at 778 Park Avenue, in New York City...

Believe, what do you have to lose Grump?

Property taxes, "user fees," traffic... I live close to the planned stadium and I don't give a [censored] whether the Vikings stay or go. I'm a Lions fan.

I appreciate the enthusiasm. You guys write your emails. I pay into both the city and state shares of the stadium, and I don't give a [censored] whether the Vikings stay or go. I also don't think Zigi is ever going to buy an MLS team because 1) He won't spend 10M to make 60M on the Vikings stadium, and 2) Garber won't sell him the franchise if he wants it because WE havent built the market MLS wants yet.

Wilfs, MLS, and the legislature can all suck my dick. I'm here for the Stars.

Just one step on a long road but YES!

Donovan

MLS provision restored in committee, the sky is not falling, resume drinking Wilf flavored Kool-Aid.

HA! goes to show what you know Ford
Zygi serves SunnyD

I'm with hairygrump, but in a nicer, gentler way: I'm here for the Stars. Whatever comes in the future, I'll deal with it, but I'm a Stars fan.

Representative Lanning said yesterday that the Vikings would like to open up the roof (retractable roof) if they bring in a soccer team.

http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2012/05/10...es-senate-next/

Whatever comes in the future, I'll deal with it, and I'm a Stars fan.

I understand that the introduction of an MLS team will cause us to lose some of the incredible intimacy the Stars have provided. However, our first concern is (1) praying to whatever deity you ascribe that we have a team next year or the league takes pity and (2) an MLS team is at least 5 years on from now. If they broke ground tomorrow, we'd be 3 years out at the earliest.

I thought the league agreed to support the team for three seasons

Aren't we in our third season right now?

Promises are made to be broken. That was before Traffic had a shift in who was running things. Things have tightened up considerably since Stefano Hawilla took over.

http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2011/10/10...r-nasl-unclear/

We are in our 3rd season of the "Stars" but our 2nd season as a league-owned team. The NSC owned the team the first year of the NASL and before the new higher USSF 2nd Division standards were created.

With all that said I think the Stars are still safe for one more year. But if an owner can't be found after that I don't have a lot of hope, at least for now.

We are in the second season, but if there are no buyers in the pipeline and the league has two new teams on the field next year there's really no reason for them to continue with the Stars. Plus, if the Vikings are still making noises about MLS, even if it is 5 years away, who would buy the Stars other than the Vikings? And the Vikings aren't exactly engaging the Stars or their fans yet.

It's not like the league signed a contract with anyone that guaranteed a third year, AFAIK.

Which all goes back to my original point: save talking nostalgically for the future--let's try to enjoy what we currently have and continue street promoting like we've done to get "butts in the stands" and keep it going.

Speaking of having a team...

On the NASL site there is a broken link for the Mississippi Brilla next to the Atlanta Silverbacks.

http://www.msbrillafc.org/

You mean in the code? I don't see it when I pull up the source.

I don't see it either. Plus, I don't know that Jackson MS quite fits into the rest of NASL as a division-2-caliber market.

Let's see if this works. Took a screen grab. Might have to open image in a new tab.

I'm not getting the same result but... there it is.

that is probably some mess from a story on the Open Cup one of Atlanta's potential opponents is Brilla

That would make sense. Weird though as the open cup isn't mentioned on the homepage yet.

I was trying to pull up a lower division team list from 10 years ago. I consider ourselves lucky that we even have a team. Looks like the mid-west has struggled the most with Milwaukee, Cincinnati, and Indiana all being gone now.

Rochester Raging Rhinos
Montreal Impact
Toronto Lynx
Pittsburgh Riverhounds
Charleston Battery
Richmond Kickers
Atlanta Silverbacks
Charlotte Eagles
Hampton Roads Mariners
Milwaukee Rampage
Minnesota Thunder
Cincinnati Riverhawks
Indiana Blast
Seattle Sounders
Portland Timbers
El Paso Patriots
Vancouver Whitecaps
Calgary Storm

So Pam Wolf doesn't think the Vikings should have the MLS clause in the bill. But also thinks that it would be great if Minnesota had their own pro soccer league that was played in the new stadium. Haven't been listening to the debate but thats what I got out of the posts on the messageboard over at KFAN.

Who the [censored] is going to come up with the money then? This incentive is I think quite fair to both the Wilfs and State.

I used to live in Pam Wolf's district. She is not smart.

http://www.senate.mn/media/flashvideo.php

Senator Warren Limmer (R) from Maple Grove is also now trying to kill the Vikings ability to have the 5 year exclusive right for a MLS team.

Maple Grove reps and senators have been the main group trying to kill the Vikings stadium bill.

http://maplegrove.patch.com/articles/map...gs-stadium-bill

Yes, she's the one who was totally clueless about the Stars even though she is from Blaine and stated that perhaps the owner of the "semi-pro" team in Blaine would be interested in bringing MLS here.

Link as they are talking about MLS portion now.

http://www.startribune.com/video/134611338.html

She is a hell of a lot smarter than the clod who used to represent that area!

Would someone tell Sen. Baak to shut up. He is really pissing people off by making this a partisan issue. #WhatDoesDFLReallyStandFor

PS to Sen. Baak: Justice Page is an asshole!

Democratic Farm Labor

So as far as MLS goes, the final version that was agreed to by the conference committee and that passed the house reinstated the 5 year exclusivity but removed the free rent clause, correct? So (assuming it passes the Senate, the Governor signs it, Mpls signs off on it, etc) that means that:

1) for 5 years after the first NFL game is played in the stadium, no other ownership group could have an MLS team playing in the new Vikings stadium.

That's it, right? That's the only practical effect on MLS, or soccer in general? I mean, the state and/or the stadium authority has no legal means of keeping Some Other Really Rich Guy from negotiating with MLS to get an expansion team and bring it to Minnesota, right? They just couldn't play at the Vikings stadium for those first 5 years.

Or am I missing something?

Yes, it passed!

What is up with Senator Pappas? She lives in St. Paul. Not sure why she is not voting.

Hooray!

The score was 36-30 a lot of shots were taken.
Many of lazy players did not even step on to the field.

It made a 1-0 soccer game look so boring...

Alright. Well. Now we need to heckle the [censored] out of Zygi.

That is correct as I understand it.

We should send him some free tickets and have someone offer to pick him up and drive him to and from a game.

I agree with this analysis. I am having lunch with my state senator next week as I think he wants a check from me. I am probably not going to give him the full amount...at least at this point.

Sen. Baak made some good points in his final speech, but I think he was playing a little to much for the cameras. I seriously doubt the truthfulness about his story. Even if his story was correct, hell could freeze over tomorrow and he is still going to win by 15 points.

PS: Next in line for a new stadium is the St. Paul Saints.

Up next is doubling the attendance of the Stars!

If the new MLS team has to pay rent it must negotiate that rent with the newly corrected stadium authority, correct?

My guess is that they could get a fairly favorable rental agreement once the news dies down a little bit.

That is EXACTLY correct SR. That's exactly why it was written into the language in the manner it was. There is an out in there that makes sure that they at least pay the cost of having the team play there so if they do negotiate a good deal it will be exactly as the language was previously.

Oh, and for all those that keep talking about Zygi, he is rarely around here. Mark Wilf is the guy who works in MN with the team. He's the guy you want to reach out to. I still think from the verbiage of the MLS clause in the bill, that it may be someone besides the Wilfs who want to run the team. But as of now that is purely speculation, nothing I know.

OMG, the clapper-whacker guy is everywhere.
[img]http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/medi...defa&size=l[/img]

Hahaha I love it.

Anyone watch the press conference? Apparently Zygi said he really wants MLS in Minnesota.

Can you give a summary of the MLS part of Zygi's press conference?

I hope he makes it to a Stars match. I will give him one of my flex tickets.

I'm sure he'd prefer to sit in one of the luxury boxes. Oh-wait a minute...

I didn't listen to it. Saw it mentioned on the KFAN messageboard.

I read on wiki that Zigi was born in Germany (good country of origin to like soccer), went to law school (an honorable calling) and is worth $1.3 billion (enough to meet the NASL net worth benchmark). This guy should really buy the Stars and hang with us on the eastside. I bet he likes skoking heaters which is pretty cool too.

Zygi and Mark Wilf are good guys who did this because of a passion (well mostly anyway).

I hope they also find that same passion for an MLS team. The fans can help them find that in the next years, the fans have a large effect of what the Wilf's do for this state. This is Minnesota's best chance to join D1 soccer anytime soon. It will not be too soon when we start playing Seattle, Vancouver, and Portland again.

Planned first Vikings game in the new stadium is fall of 2016.

MN MLS in 2017
D1 should be our new goal for the highest level of soccer played in Minnesota (again).



*Oh, and the Detroit Lions, Chicago Bears, and Green Bay packers all suck!

Maybe the next step is getting Zigi to buy the Stars.

I fixed it for ya. Free of charge.

We really need to invite these guys to a Stars tailgate. We should start using the twitter hashtag #FreeBeer4Zygi

I've sent out emails for every big event. Dome opener, championship game, etc. Gotta work on the whole Viking's staff, not just Zygi.

Garber, on Minnesota: "It goes on the list" of possible expansion sites now that new NFL stadium has been approved #mls

https://twitter.com/#!/SoccerInsider/status/201020838105989120

you cant spell MPLS without MLS

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/dcu...IkIU_story.html

Garber is aware of a clause in the recently-approved financing plan for a new stadium for the Minnesota Vikings that gives the team sole discretion to host any major league soccer team in that stadium.

“I think Minneapolis is a good market,” he said. “We have had discussions with the Vikings in the past and I think it goes on the list.”

He said the league is interested in expanding, but was quick to note that any such moves would not come soon.

“I try to impress upon all of our people that this expansion project is a 20-year process,” he said. “It’s not a two or three year process and I can’t imagine that 20 years from now, we’re not in markets like Miami or Minneapolis or in Atlanta if a new stadium is built. I think we’ll be in most major markets. We have to be, it’s a big country.”

Garber touted the importance of soccer-specific stadiums on Friday. But says things are fine for most MLS teams which share a stadium, except for D.C. United at RFK Stadium. He says the high operating costs there make it “an untenable situation that has got to change.”

MLS Expansion: North Carolina...someday.

http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2012/4/13/2946190/mls-expansion-north-carolina

Expanding beyond 20 teams remains a concept MLS is interested in, but not one they are in any rush to do. More importantly, there don't appear to be any owners lining up to spend tens of millions of dollars to buy a team and potentially hundreds of millions more to build a soccer stadium.


MLS's checklist:

1.-An ownership group: No one in North Carolina has stepped up and it's hard for me to see Phil Rawlins buying into MLS without some serious financial backing. -Traffic's move to Cary?

2.-A 20,000-seat soccer stadium: The Carolina Railhawks are currently expanding to about 10,000 seats and Orlando City plays in the cavernous Orange Bowl. Neither have current plans -- or the money -- to build their own stadiums that would fit MLS criteria.

3.-Crowds of 18,000-plus: Of the four teams that have made the leap from the minor leagues to MLS, all of them had at some point in their history drawn at least 10,000 fans a game. In Seattle and Vancouver, you have to go back to the days of the original NASL, but the Portland Timbers and Montreal Impact were drawing huge crowds for second division play. -When they started talking about moving up to MLS


...There's probably room for growth, but let's not rush it.

Minnesota's new story

1.-Mark and Zigy Wilf
2.-New stadium 20,000++
3.- MN Kicks = Largest average attendance in the original NASL league, 28,000+

3 for 3 in Minnesota is not a bad place to start from. And... we do tend to be able to beat North Carolina when the chips are down.

We do have a bit of pro soccer history in Minnesota maybe we should be talking about that more and making sure people remember that history of great support for soccer in Minnesota.




13904



http://www.mnhs.org/library/findaids/00810.xml



Sports Illustrated
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1091495/index.htm

Any (I repeat any...) talk of a MLS team playing in Minnesota is the way it all starts. The next time you talk to someone new about coming out to a MN Stars game at the NSC, say -"did you hear we might be the next MLS team site now that we have a new stadium...?

It works people love being involved today in something that will become more popular in the next years.

Talk about it, and then -build it, and they will come, again.

I love watch the old NASL videos with the offsides line. #Visionary

Go Stars!

The more I think about this the more I feel despair that professional soccer in Minnesota is about to go away for a long time. Wes does a good job describing the risks here: http://www.mls4mn.com/where-mls4mn-stands-may-2012/

No ownership group is going to buy the Stars with the specter of a Wilf-owned MLS franchise out there. If the Wilfs are serious about MLS -- which I still question, considering the franchise fee they've mentioned is barely half what would be required -- they could not possibly join the league prior to 2017.

That means (best case scenario): we have a team to support in another five years.

Unless ... the Wilfs buy the Stars.

Is there any indication that the Wilfs know about the Stars or that they would be interested in buying the team?

What could be done to increase the likelihood that this could actually happen?

You want to get involved with the guys and gals that are doing work here: http://www.mls4mn.com/

wacker clapper strikes again!

John is hardcore! Great all around MN sports fan.

He's also hard core sell the wacker clapper. LOL

Holy Crap!

Who'd have thought we'd see this thread at the top of the page again?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/13/minnesota-governor-threatens-to-undo-stadium-deal/

Is it over? Vikings to LA? No foreseeable competition for the Stars? Tear down the Metrodome and build the new Stars stadium there?

Probably not.

"But it's nice to see there's still a few plot twists in this soap opera" chortles

That little old jersey collector

Me

One can only hope.

You're all actually dumb if you believe any of the Vikings stuff.

They're still building the stadium in the same spot.

It's just the media drumming up "news".


EDIT:
The source of all of it was an awful sportscaster's twitter speculation.

Agreed with you on that one.

I am pro viking relocation.

There's a MSFA meeting this Friday at 9:00am. For the price you can't beat the entertainment!

The best thing about old topics being bumped, is getting the opportunity to revisit long-forgotten posts...

The allure of the Vikings/NFL escapes me as well. My only live Vikings experience was on comps from a Jets player that found us sitting among drunken and displaced Queens residents. My agnostic behind believed in Hell that day.

Let me just say this about all the speculation on the Vikings stuff: it's been my experience that hell hath no fury like a Mark Dayton scorned. Think what you want about the man as a politician or governor, but when he decides to be pissed off about something, he doesn't let it go easily.

Of course, that's why I'm pretty sure the Vikings will include him, on some level, in their conversations about how to fund the team portion of the new stadium and try to keep him happy. I don't see the Vikings going anywhere, but they may get kicked around by the politicians a bit in the process of getting the building done.

I still don't get why they're doing an exhibition in London. I always thought the rest of the world doesn't give a [censored] about football same way the general populous of the US doesn't care about soccer.

Think of it as a reverse of Eurosnobs and MLS. 80,000 people will turn up to watch a NFL team play, but they wouldn't go support NFL Europe.

Robert Kraft is pushing for a team in London.

"I think we're starting to tap out in the United States. If you look at the last Super Bowl we were in this past season, we had over 180 million people watching, that's almost two thirds of America. So for us to grow the game, we have to expand globally"

As Bobby McMahon says in Forbes, the NFL will never catch on in Europe.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/bobbymcmahon...ide-of-the-usa/





.



Edit: yes, I realize he's being ironic. It's still funny.

I only have personal experience with residents of Germany, Italy, and Turkey. My anecdotal evidence suggests that they would not watch the NFL if it was free and across the street. Regardless, there are many US citizens in London.

The game in London is a regular-season game.

The NFL and College Football both have pretty surprising success in the British Isles. The Notre Dame games that happen in Ireland are surprisingly well attended.

I heard a rumor that the NFL will try to expand and have a London based team in the next five years.

London and Mexico City have been rumored for a number of years. This year a team in Canada was mentioned which I don't see happening because of the CFL. The NFL would have to give up to much in the next CBA to have a team in London. The players hate going there to play because of the long flight and the disruption to their schedule.

Have you seen Pittsburgh's new stadium?

http://www.theuniondues.net/2012/11/27/new-soccer-specific-stadium-in-pittsburgh/

We would need to add at least 1,500 more seats but the cost of their stadium was USD $10.2 million.

BBVA stadium was built for $95 million in the space immediately next to all the other stadiums (prime real estate). I think a SSS can be done for pretty cheap.
Also... this is riverside property that is scheduled as part of the river redesign... we can dream, can't we?
google maps

That is an awesome location Wes.

I alreay crushed Wes's dreams about the Nicollet Island peeps freaking out about De La Salle's stadium. Wait till they get a piece of the soccer stadium idea.

It will be some awesome fireworks!

It's not even on the island. Also, it's better than Parade Park's enemies. Also, don't crush my dreams. Let me post internet things in peace.

Every party has a pooper that's why we invited you, Superrookie.

EDIT:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ_LHyx2odc


What is the code to embed?

Actually, I don't think that photo does the stadium justice. Here's a better photo found right here on this discussion board under Pittsburgh Riverhounds.

Seamonster and I have been all over this piece of property for several weeks and have talked to some folks from Hennepin County as well. I've toured the site, taken photos and videos and driven around the neighborhoods. (Although I don't live in NE I have worked their for 23 years and feel very attached to the neighborhood.)

There has been environmental clean up done to the site which was paid for by the American Recovery and Reinvestment act and actually was cleaned up to the point that they could put residential on the site if wanted.

I have even gone as far as mocking it to see what it might look like. It would be an absolutely fantastic site but I do think it would have some major opposition with neighbors just south of Plymouth as well as the condos across the river and to the south. And of course Nicollette Island as well. Boom Island would be a great place to tailgate but of course the city probably wouldn't like that either. There is room to the east to purchase some buildings for parking lots and you might be able to work something out for parking with Grayco to the north on game days.

The biggest issue is the land was purchased by the Park Board as part of their plan to open up as much of the waterway along the Mississippi as possible. They paid a lot of money for it. While it sounds as if they are open to some development on the east part of that property (to recover some of the money spent), they want the bulk of the area to be park and open space to the river.

I'm not saying it couldn't happen. I think it's a near perfect site. But it would not be without it's issues.

Also, not sure if any of you have seen the plans they have for Landsdowne Park in Ottawa with the rehab they will be doing with their stadium. The south stands had to be demolished and I really like the concept they have for the new south stand facade that is near the river. Yes, they too have a river near their stadium and it's a really beautiful area. I could really see a design like this enhancing the river way in NE Mpls, over what is there currently. Colorplast did a very nice job with their building right across from Grayco on the west side of the river.

Here is a mockup of the Landsdowne stadium project in Ottawa looking from a bridge that crosses the river.

Here is a mockup of what the Plymouth Ave. Stadium might look like from an arial view. The stadium is to scale of the map but is actually 5,100 seat Blackbaud Stadium.

I'm feeling like JW7 with all the multiple post here, but here is another concept.

The Army Core of Engineers have recently been talking (very seriously) about about closing up the lock and damn at the Stone Arch Bridge so as not to allow invasive species up the river any further north than Minneapolis. Mayor Rybak is in favor of it saying, "We are no longer a barging town and have not been for a long time"

Rybak would like to relocate some of the businesses along the riverfront on the West side of river. This would be the area just north of this spot and primarily north of the Broadway Bridge and just north of the Lowery Avenue Bridge. If you've ever been to Pysco Suzies you have probably wished you could be looking out on something a lot nicer than the cement plant which barges sand up to the plant and the scrap metal plant that also barges and I'm sure pollutes the river like crazy.

Just to the north of the Lowery Avenue Bridge lies the asphalt shingle company. Again, Rybak has said he would like to make that area more accessible to the River for North Mpls. Residents.

These areas may be ripe for development along the river with green walkways merging with the river along with an ascetically designed river front stadium.

I'm glad that Seamonster, BQ, 'n' me are in a mind meld.
Here's what I know: the new Stars ownership group are smart and well-connected. They could sell a project like this to guys like Mayor Rybak because there is already a desire to rework the city's integration of the river (go check out all the bids to redesign the city along the river that happened in the last year). That desire is also a desire to connect communities. Northeast is (especially this part) is in a perfect position to draw people toward the river as well as pull together NE, North, Downtown, and with some public transit (street cars likely) fixes even the West Bank.
The drawback as BQ notes is access. Marshall becomes the way from Downtown and Plymouth the way from the highway. Plus parking.
But as for fights from housing groups, those fights can be won.

So I will give you a few more tidbits I recorded as I was studying this property which I have named (let it be so) the Plymouth Avenue stadium site.
General notes on Location:

2 freeway entrances, one within 1 mile the other within 1.5 miles.

Within walking distance of many bars and restaurants in the area.

Within 1.25 miles of the North Loop with it's bars and restaurants.

Within 1.5 miles of the Warehouse District

Within 1.4 miles of Target field

Within 1 mile of the Hennepin and University NE Mpls. hub with multiple bars and restaurants.

Less than 1 mile from many NE Mpls. bars and restaurants.

Less than 2.5 miles from the Uptown/Kenwood area.

And to top it all off, the main stands and suites could have a very sweet cityscape of downtown Minneapolis with the river flowing in the foreground.

On the down side, it sounds like our new owners don't have a lot of confidence in the Parks Board. Sounds as if they have already run into walls and I was told that Rybak is not really a factor in this as the Parks Board is sort of its own entity, bureaucratic and slow in action.

I'm loving this.

I love the site. That is a fact.

However, the Mpls Park Board is a disaster. I don't see this going anywhere with them. Any land owned by the MPB is full of bureacratic problems that are legendary...and this is where the Nicollet Island folks come in. They are the power brokers of the city, and to a lesser extent the state as Phyllis Kahn is a long-time resident. The folks on Nicollet Island lease their houses from the Park Board (99year leases) and it is a huge hassle.

While the Plymouth Ave Stadium Site isn't on the island, it is as close as possible to the island as you can walk through Boom Island to get to Nicollet Island.

I would rather see the stadium go 100% private land across the river near the sites mentioned by BQ, over by Donnie Dirk's or the old Stand Up Franks.

Finally, I would think another ideal location would be over by the University on the backside of TCF stadium near where they are looking to put in the Surly Brewery.

Yup, i'm right there with ya. This is sweet. Nice work BQ!

Just put this there:



and we're good to go!

You guys ever see the plans that Fulham have for Craven Cottages expansion of the main stands. The inside of the stadium will keep the older look with removal of the support beams which are obstacles to watching the match. However, the outside will take on an entirely different look with a river walk running right through the first level of the outside of the stadium. They will also have a restaurant and bar at the different levels looking out over the Thames. Check the link out. It's worth your time taking a look at.

http://www.fulhamfcstadium.com/design-concept/reconnected-river-walk/

Pfutz, are you suggesting that we build a stadium shaped like a Christmas stocking and then erect Monopoly houses to pay the rent? So, we should move it just a few blocks north to Broadway?


Seriously, though, I don't know about feasibility of things like this and bureaucracy. I know that stranger things have happened than bureaucracy being sorted.
I do know that this is right in the hub of biking. This is like a bike commuters dream since it connects all the bike trails between NE, North, and downtown. hubba hubba.

Yes I am.







The 5,000 seat stadium was never built. Designed as part of a competition for a replacement for the existing facility in Dubrovnik, Croatia.

Put a supporters club ala Sporting in the bottom of the stocking... I'd give up Christmas for that one.

It feels good to get it all out ahe bq? Kinda refreshing after a long day of customer service

And that is jw7 Brian, not JW7 that was my dad.

You are showing your true passion bq... Love it!
Great pics

Pfutz, also great images.

"At least" is an underestimate...

As BQ and others have reported, the estimates are that a D2 team needs to average, that's AVERAGE, "at least" 5000 per match to just break even. You can't do that with a 5000 seat stadium unless you sell out every match. Weekend or weekday. Rain or shine. 30 degrees or 100 degrees.

In addition, our new owner has set a target for a 10,000 a match average. Can't do that in a five or six thousand seater.

So again, tripling the cost (just based on seating; there are other costs that would increase the pricetag even greater in building structures that would hold more people and the additional superstructure to support the weight of a bigger stadium and a great many other factors)for what appears to be a pretty bare bones stadium is still $30.6 million MINIMUM. We are still talking decades for it to pay for itself out of rental savings.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love a bright, shiny, new stadium.

"But the economics aren't adding up except over the VERY long term" estimates

That little old jersey collector

Me

Am I the only one that thinks the supporters club at Livestrong is lame and fairly classist? Sure, it is cool to have your own little area to watch the game, but holy crap do they treat the supporters like they are third world terrorists hell bent on destroying the world.

You get frisked going in and then they constantly watch you behind the goal. Almost makes you want to do something bad. Meanwhile, those sitting outside the supporters club section don't get half the treatment those downstairs get.

I know this is off topic, but that has always bothered me about Livestrong. I would rather sit outside the supporters club where I get treated with respect, than like that of a caged animal.

That is how MLS works now. The stadium is filled with private security people that don't give a [censored] about their customers. I got threw out of a DC United game in the last five minutes because I wanted to watch (standing in the standing room only area of the DC united Hall of fame area) from behind the goal. They repeatedly asked me to go back to my seat and I refused, so four guys dragged me out the door (I did not resist) and they swore at me as they did it. It reminded me of getting a red card in a game.


I never went back to RFK again! I stopped watching their games on TV. I just did not care about them anymore after that.

D1 (as it is now) is overrated unless of course you live in the rain and have nothing else to do on a Saturday night during the summer!

$15. for parking
$30. for a ticket
$8. for a shitty 12 once light beer...
Stupid DP picks of players that can hardly play in MLS...


And DC United wonder why they had the lowest attendance in years.
Without their supporters they would have no fans at all.


Then I went to a game in May at Fed-X stadium and sat with 67,000 other fans in that general region that have stopped going to RFK also.


MLS might think they are the $#!% because they are growing but they have a few very real problems they need to fix to retain their customers on the east coast.


Now MLS are completely obsessed (yes, completely obsessed with greed) with placing a second team in NY, a market that just build a new soccer specific stadium. They have a new stadium and 18 million people from all parts of the world and they can't even get close to filling that one stadium. Somebody would have to be an idiot to spend $100,000,000 to buy a second team in that city that has yet to prove it can fill just one new stadium.

Maybe that is why old Phil from Denver has decided to sell off now...

1) Why don't we go with the way the field was built in Vancouver. Modular and isht: http://www.vsi-stadium.com/development-projects/modular-temporary-stadium

Probably could easily make that permanent, or something.

Outside the box thinking.

I was of two minds about that when we were there for that gold cup game. It's a super nice thing, but all the access control seems a little excessive. I'm not sure why that type of concourse fanciness couldn't be less restricted and generate more beer and merch sales and still spread the niftyness out to the cheap seats. I feel like the new Twins stadium does that pretty well.

As to the security there, that'll get better, I'm sure. Off-duty cops and roughneckers go in without much instruction and it takes time and jabs in the ribs for the fan culture to get the elbow room they need. People get booted, banned, then the supporter push back on the club. It's one of the reasons we organize. Portland and Chicago manage to do it without going all corporate/official, so we'll see if the Wiz fans can get some more space themselves.

There's a lot of costs that would increase with a larger stadium, and a lot of costs that would not necessarily increase. I'm not going to say it couldn't be 30.6, but I also am not convinced it would be.

I've heard that a basic SSS would cost about 18 million here. Mind you that doesn't include the cost of land and no luxury boxes would be included.

And Uclem, don't forget revenue from renting out the stadium for other events. And naming rights.

As well as the fact that you don't need the stadium to pay for itself on its own. You can't get an MLS team without a stadium. And then you have to fork out another $70M for an MLS team, but you then become part owner of SUM, which immediately pays back those investments.
More importantly, it might increase the costs, but having your own downtown stadium is a way to legitimize a team that is always fighting for legitimacy.

Yes

I've never been to, so i don't know from experience, but i've always liked the idea that Blackbaud has in the Three Lions Pub. a bar open to the public from the outside, for our other soccer needs, but at the same time providing a place to drink, and well, "special" entrance to the stadium for paid supporters. I never want to discriminate from other fans wanting to join in and build our numbers, but it could be one more incentive to paying for DC memberships. And this could come back to the idea of a local onsite brewer. One can dream.

I've not been in the section at a match, and if it's not a fun time then it sucks, but if being a supporter remains a positive distinction, not a pejorative, I'm on board.

I've never had a bad experience at LiveStrong and I've sat all over the park. The only time I had trouble was wanting to bring an empty nalgene bottle in for water on a 105 degree day ... you could bring in a disposable water bottle, but not a nalgene. weird.

I also don't find it to be classist. I find it an encouragement to be part of the cult.

My comment is directed at the excessive security searches and presence in the contained supporters area (cheap seats) while if you spend a little bit of money and sit elsewhere you hardly have any restraints whatsoever.

Seems to me they are caging up a group of people and creating an opportunity for problems since they are treating people like jerks.

Again, as Demko pointed out, this is probably just me.

If I was a Sporting fan I would get tickets elsewhere and just drink in the club after the game or on non-game days.

As to the Scherer Brothers site, pretty interesting stuff planned which will actually cut into the property, creating an island which is how the river used to be back before 1965. Still sounds as if they want to partner with business for part of the property.

http://www.minneapolisparks.org/documents/design/RiverFirst/2012-11-30DNR-USACEPresentation.pdf

There will be an open house for River First on January 17th.

The Minneapolis Park and Recreation Board (MPRB) invites you to an open house featuring in-progress designs for several projects within the RiverFirst vision, including a park on the Scherer Bros. site, trails along the river, and 26th Ave N greenway enhancements. The open house will be held January 17 from 6:00 to 8:00 p.m. at the Nicollet Island Pavilion, 40 Power St.

http://riverfirst.com/

RiverFirst project page

http://www.minneapolisparks.org/default.asp?PageID=1352

Umm...

Interesting stuff in general, but I must be missing something. Is there a stadium site in all this somewhere?

Mystified, I remain

That little old jersey collector

Me

Track back to ongoing discussion in this thread on Scherer Brothers site - aka Plymouth Av.

http://www.usldiscussions.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/285595/Re_new_stadium#Post285595

That plan looks really great. Boy would a stadium right there on the river be genius.
I won't be in town for that 17th meeting, but are you planning to go BQ?

I'll be there.

If the Stars move permanetly out of Blaine I will drop my season tickets.

If there's a new stadium built I'll totally call you out on this.

are you a stars fan, or a blaine fan?

He was trolling.

this is the internet. we're all always trolling, trying to get a big spergfest started.

I remember when Soccer Boy claimed he was going to turn in his DC membership, and then he didn't.

Bump!

This is coming up on Thursday night. I'll be there if anyone would like to join me. Should be interesting to hear their plans no matter what the outcome of the site.

http://www.usldiscussions.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/286397/Re_new_stadium#Post286397

beautiful site, with lots of parking issues?
if so, don't think the urban engineers at the dot will jump on board

Bill has stated he wants to see attendance in the 10,000 range BQ, though I do like the super-imposed images.

Well, if you follow the link I gave previously you will find there will be even less room now as the create an island. (Trust me - check out the links)

However, I'm pretty sure the land to the east could be had as there are warehouses buildings with only a few in use. Parking could also be assisted with Grayco cooperation and they could make some extra cash in doing so. But there are some issues, do doubt. It is also probably one of the finest spots you could find in Mpls. proper to put a stadium. On the river and so very close to lots of bars and restaurants. And just a hop-skip and a jump to two freeways ramps.

Now that I look at your sketch up more closely BQ, I realized we're thinking of different places. My good sources ruled that as a no-chance buy in from the Park District.

I have heard this is significantly more likely:




However I've been out of the loop since mid-December.


EDIT:
The nothern bridge is Lowry, southern railroad. I messed up the compression.

coldfuse has a picture of what i have been thinking all along.

PRE GAME AT B-J'S

If only Stand Up Franks was still around...

Where would I park my car? Where would the tailgating take place? Where are the additional 8,000 fans who don't currently come to matches?

c0ldfuse, I'm a bit confused on your post? The Mpls. Parks have said they want to make some of the money back they have spent on purchasing the land (very expensive buy) from Scherer Brothers by combining their plans with commercial, industrial or residential on the east end of the piece of property. Unless something has changed in the last several months, that was their plan. And as stated previously and numerous times, the land and buildings to the east are pretty vacant at this point.

However, with all that said, I have already (somewhere in this thread) written about that track of land you are talking about and even north of the Lowery Bridge if Rybak has his way. I don't think that track of land is anywhere near as ideal as the Plymouth Av. location, but land would be cheaper (once the industrial is moved off the river) and the Park Board gets their river access which would probably be about the same amount they want at the Scherer Bros location or possible even across an access street like on the opposite side of River Road as it runs north but stops currently at the condos north of the Broadway av. Bridge. You are also dealing with the perceptions that many people will have of the stadium being in North Mpls. And it's smack in the middle of heavy industrial and another couple of miles away now from the many bars and restaurants that were literally within walking distance of the Plymouth Av. location.

On the positive side, I doubt a bunch of scrap metal salvage companies are going to give a rats butt that you are building a nice new stadium next to their industrial jungle. No NIMBY folks there.

Lastly, Stand Up Franks is still there but is now owned by Psycho Suzie's and is Donny Dirks Zombie Bar. But I'm guessing you are fully aware of that and just miss the old dive bar that you never knew if you'd leave with your life or not.

I unfortunately wasn't old enough to be out of the college-bar-phase to visit the real Stand Up Franks.

Going back to your comment--the river development plan was not officially "out" at the time of my conversations (the new island I learned about here first). I was told the Park District would be fairly uninterested in developing commercial on those properties, however you are clearly much more in the know than I am. And don't get me wrong, I adore the Plymouth site. It is my preferred site (not that my preference matters) and would be phenomenal for the fans and the team.

Soccer Boy- do you not read anything anyone on here writes, ever?

I just pictured tailgating and giving away free beer on a scrapper day on the north side. That'd make for some interesting conversations.

Plymouth location, though: Marching to the match from Dusty's is the first time I've imagined one of those stupid parades and not eye-rolled my whole head off.

Soccer Boy is illiterate, so no.

Boom Island Park was made for tailgating which is 100 yards from the site.

http://goo.gl/maps/Hlm0A

...except that it's a City park, no?

In my experience reserving those picnic shelters costs peanuts and is a license to do whatever you want if you can do it without being a dick.

And there is the issue. Just Kidding.....for the most part.

Keep the high expectations planing going, someday that might just work in Minnesota. I would love to see a stadium near the water with a view of the cityscape.

Someday...

Be quiet you douchebag. I am in the process of selling my firm. The buyers need to think I am smart and not so moron who went to a publik skool.

Well, after attending the meeting last night I'd say you are correct. While the talked about some form of retail/office/industrial/residential on the east end, that now seems to be squeezed into a little tiny spot on the north end (planners ((Not from here)) seem to have their head in the clouds and not very practical) and not sure why anyone would want to put a business in the spot with no parking and crammed in next to Grayco.

Anyway, the Scherer Brothers site is their marquee property which they will work off of to try to acquire green space along the river from Plymouth all the way to the northern border of the city. It's quite clear that this is a hands off piece of property that they will tell retailers where they want them to be even though they say they are open to suggestions.

As to the land north of Broadway, the Mpls Port whatever it's called that is owned by the city and used for barging is most likely the next spot that will be open. A city council person said last night the council along with Rybak are in favor of closing that down to barging. But it sounds as if they want to make that as park like as possible as well. Trying to bring it back to what was more pristine.

The other industrial areas north of Broadway and west of the river are to be tackled over the next 30 years.

A bittersweet victory.

Now the Stars have to move to a new stadium. The NSC can't support all the softball fields that go along with the supporter culture.

http://abcnewspapers.com/2013/01/18/task...c-not-feasible/

Why is the NSC even talking about supporting a minor league baseball team? I do think it would be great seeing baseball players running the base pads with USA Cup logos on their uniforms.

I have been watching the Boards for quite some time and have finally decided to comment. The people on the Boards seem to have a "if you build it, they will come" mentality. Having been around when they first built the NSC, that was the same mentality they had at that time. They built it, and people have not come.

In a time of tight government budgets, it really is not practical to build another stadium. Get people to come first, build a stronger following, and then build something else.

I believe the mentality is more "if you don't build it, they may not come," I believe there is a difference.

First, I don't think there are any plans to have this stadium be paid for by the government. I think you're right, no politician would support it for a second.
Second, this approach has been the approach taken by soccer teams since MLS 2.0 began. The idea is not "if you build it...." Rather, it's if you want to indicate to the community that this is a professional team worth their money and passion and worth being taken seriously, then you don't play in a minor league baseball stadium.
Now, NSC is hardly a minor league baseball stadium. I love it. Ignoring the very important aspect of having a team located in the distant suburbs, there is the other fact that it's very hard to build a team at the NSC financially. They can make a lot more game day money if they have their own stadium.
The fact is, the media and some soccer fans who support Liverpool, but not the Stars aren't sold yet on the underdog story. They want to be sold on the: we're here and you have to take us seriously story.

I always thought the National Sports Center was built to be an Olympic Development Center. Hence the (past) Olympic sized track, the dormitories and the cauldron. Because the site was previously a flat sod farm, the vast array of soccer fields were easy to build. It was also built for armature sports and kids tournaments. The stadium was for special exhibition matches and meets. Even though the MN Thunder started there in 1990, I don't think hosting a professional soccer team was their intent.

You don't build a complex with 50 soccer fields and a stadium complex and not want professional soccer being played there. The original plans called for a full bowl to be built, but were scaled back.

Not sure why the Kicks got 30,000+ to come to a distant suburb called Bloomington and some have a phobia of driving the 12 miles from DT Minneapolis to Blaine.

I hate to say it folks, but if the Stars cant get 5000 to come to matches on a consistent basis, there is no way any municipality is going to invest in a new stadium. #FactsOfLife

To quote the French author and 1947 Nobel Prize winner for Literature, Andre Gide:

“Everything has been said before, but since nobody listens we have to keep going back and beginning all over again.”

I realize that we have some newbies who haven't been subjected to the body of my work here. But, take my word for it, I've posted on this topic before.

Anyone who uses the quote from "Fields of Dreams", or other simple variants of it, as a business model is doomed to failure. "If you build it, they will come" only applies to the ghosts of long gone baseball players. Our attendance problems are not, for the most part, due to our location or our stadium.

In show business(and make no mistake, that is the business the Stars are in), this is the principle: If you put on a great show, AND YOU MAKE SURE EVERYBODY KNOWS, they will come.

In the Seven County Metro Area, our main market area, hardly anyone in the general public knows that we exist. Less than that know where we play. Personally guesstimating, I would be shocked if as many as one in 1,000 people in the Twin Cities could name one Minnesota Stars player. I would be even more shocked if half that knew what the NASL was.

The Number One change in investment priorities must be in the consistency and amount of investment in our marketing, especially in traditional mass market media. We need to be in both of the daily newspapers (though not necessarily every day). We need to advertise on television and radio. Appear on strategically placed billboards.

We also must be more consistent in our on-the-ground, door-to-door marketing. We need to build relationships with every sports-bar and soccer-shop in town and keep in touch with them regularly, year after year. We need to be at every festival and fair every year. Every small retail business that allows a local dance troupe or artist to leave a brochure or one-sheet on their checkout counter or in their foyer should have a stack of ours.

If you look at the top 25 attended matches in the history of the Stars, and its antecedent, the Thunder, you'll find that most of them shared a promotional blitz that actively sought a wider audience and that other matches lacked.

When you review the yearly attendance records of the clubs, one fact leaps out from the data. Seasons where the team was marketed effectively with real investment are the years that approached or surpassed the 4,000 people per game average.

Without a consistent advertising plan and a marketing budget that fluctuated wildly from year to year, inadequately funded in most, we have no idea what our baseline attendance from season to season can be. I submit that we determine that over the next three years by developing a comprehensive, consistent marketing strategy funded comparatively to our closest competition for the entertainment dollar, the Saints (approx. $250,000 per season in 2001: http://www.inc.com/magazine/20010801/23215.html ) and the Lynx ($500,000 per season in 2008: http://www.minnpost.com/politics-policy/...anding-campaign ).

What this club needs to do in the immediate future, far more than to find a venue closer to the geographical center of the Seven County Area or invest in a shiny, new stadium is to ingrain our brand into the minds of the general public. Become so often seen, mentioned and well known that even people who don't come to our matches or aren't even soccer fans still know that the Minnesota Stars is the local professional soccer team and that it plays at the NSC in Blaine. And the best way to do that is to advertise incessantly.

Until the Minnesota Stars have at least the kind of name recognition that the Saints and the Lynx have, then whether downtown or in Blaine, in a new stadium or at the NSC, we still won't break the 20+ year attendance plateau we have barely subsisted on.

"Do your part. Always carry at least five foldaway schedules in your wallet or purse to give out to anyone you happen to run into who expresses an interest in the beautiful game," urges

That little old jersey collector

Me

Or else, we'll be like...

"West Ham... like actors playing to an empty stage." - Brian Butler, former BBC Football Correspondent

SB, I think there is a pretty big difference between not only the southern and western suburbs a first ring ones at that.

It is quicker to go from DT Minneapolis to the NSC than going from DT Minneapolis to the MOA. Not really sur what your point is buddy.

You answered your own question: population and money density.

This conversation is the worst.

I'm with Uhclem it not the location at this point.
But it will become about the stadium and location soon after the marketing actually works. Parking will be an issue if it increase the cost of attending the game by more than $5.


If you are a fan of the game you will make it to the stadium where ever it is.

Is the new management going to market the team. Sure carry around a few schedules and hand them out. But seriously, I see nothing about the team. Correct me if I am wrong, but the team has a new owner that is interested in having 10,000 people at every match, right?

4th Official, I think I can speak freely about this at this point and time.

It is my understanding that there is a ton of planning going on behind the scenes and much of that is about promotion which I would hope we will start hearing about soon. However, it is concerning that they are getting such a late jump on things and from what I understand, that is because they are still crossing the "t's" and dotting the "i's" on the legal end of purchasing the team. As soon as that is finalized I think you will start hearing of all sorts of things planned for this coming year as well as player signings.

I concur with others that I don't believe the new owners are looking for any large governmental assistance in this and MLS has certainly learned that an SSS draws supporters. Urban SSS's even more so.

I understand it you live in the northern suburbs and you will defend it to the death. But the thing is the majority of the fans that attended sporting events in the Twin Cities come from the western and southern suburbs. I grew up in the western and currently live in the southern. Both areas hate traveling to the northern suburbs. Also there is a greater population density between the western and southern suburbs. More people to draw from. Easier to get last minute attendees to a game. Both of these areas have no problem going downtown for a game because they already do that. You would actually be able to draw more fans if a stadium was located in either of these areas as opposed to Blaine. I wouldn't put a stadium in either location.

I love Uhclem's post - a lot of truth there.

There's truth in that, but then again, people from the South and West suburbs hate going to St Paul as well. But they do for Wild games - because it's something they really want to do, so they'll come. If Stars games become something people really want to attend, they'll do it in Blaine, or St Paul or Minneapolis or wherever.

I've never liked driving to Blaine, in the 13 years I've been going up there to go to Thunder/Stars games. And believe me when I say that at some level I can't believe I'm defending it. But the reality is, it's just not that far. It seems far, but it really isn't.

Let's say you drive from Eden Prairie. You come to 2 games, one at the Metrodome and one at the NSC. You don't plan to tailgate, you're just going to drive to the game and walk up to the stadium. For the dome game, by the time you exit the freeway, park your car, walk around to the gate and hand them your ticket - in all likelihood it's going to take you the same amount of time if not longer, than to dive to the NSC, park and walk up to the gate.

I live pretty much right in the middle of the twin cities geographically (94 and 280) and it actually takes me longer to get to the dome then it does to the NSC, when you count time from leaving my door to actually walking in the gate and handing someone my ticket.

Ok in this article, MSFA and Vikings Agree on Multi-Use Field Configuration for New Minneapolis Stadium there is no exact mention of soccer but there is this tiny blurb by Bagley about how far Vikings fans would be from the sidelines.



The width of an NFL field is 53.5 yards wide meaning from stand to stand there would be 77 yards. Which would mean a soccer field at 70 yards wide would leave 12 feet and one at 75 yards wide leave 6 feet between the pitch and stands, that should be enough space, right?

Not for fifa advertising

FIFA International Matches
Length: minimum 100 m (110 yds)
maximum 110 m (120 yds)
Width: minimum 64 m (70 yds)
maximum 75 m (80 yds)

So what are the odds, given the little information so far, that Soccer will ever be played in the new vikings stadium. It seems that if it could be or they were thinking about it at all that they would have mentioned it. Since they are trying to bill it as multifunction, wouldn't they want to play that up more?

Wilf put so much energy into getting a guarantee that he is the only one that can have pro soccer here, there has to be a plan. I don't care if you don't like him, he isn't an idiot (business-ly speaking). This will work out.

If there is soccer played in that stadium it won't be Wilf's. And I don't think there is a plan, Frostbite. They were continually surprised and naive about the business of soccer when they lobbied for that part of the bill.
As for international soccer? It's really hard to tell, but I don't foresee it happening.

the guarantee is that they have exclusive rights to an MLS team IF they play in that stadium. If I win the lottery, I can build my own stadium and have an MLS franchise anytime I want.

Can anyone here actually make an argument that the business of soccer in the US is anything but surprising? It's a weird system.

I don't doubt that Wilf will not be able to field an MLS team in the 5 years he has exclusivity. My understanding was that Wilf lobbied hard for his exclusivity and that his group were the ones that really pushed the multi-use field part. Am I mistaken?

Nothing of the interactions I have had with Lester Bagely ever indicated a substantial interest in putting soccer in this stadium.

It was a component of a larger narrative of multi use development, which had the secondary benefit of providing them with some level of veto power over a "potential competitor" in the sports landscape of this market.

The language of their "exclusivity" is very interesting, pull out the bill some time and read it. In time it may be as debated as the punctuation of the 2nd amendment.

I came away with the feeling like soccer was a vaguely conceived of future. They thought about it, but didn't seem to have much of a clue of the logistics of how one might secure an MLS franchise.

Anything the Vikings ever said during the stadium debate should be taken with as many grains of salt as you possibly can get. The team recognized that they needed to obfuscate the fact that the Vikings will use this unbelievably expensive stadium for ten days a year, so they did their best to make people believe that the other 355 would be filled, same as at the Metrodome.

College baseball? Sure! .... but the right-field line will be the length of a basketball court.

Soccer? Absolutely! .... but not a team that we don't own, nor are we planning to buy a team.

Jon is correct. The Vikings were obviously aware that the stupefying cost was a hard sell for ten dates so they hit the smoke and mirrors multi use angle hard. It is not multi use. It is not a convention center, it isn't even the Target Center. It will just be yet another stadium that sits there empty most of the time.

Yes you are. Actually, correct on the first point, wrong on the second. The Vikings are only concerned with the Vikings/football and using it for concerts etc. They wanted a open air stadium configured specifically for American football. However, if they wanted public funding, and make no mistake, they did want public funding, they needed to make it "The Peoples Stadium." The State of MN and the City of Mpls are the ones who wanted the multi-purpose and covered facility.

Oh, man. You just crushed my starry-eyed naivete. I guess I am surprised that I am surprised at reading that. Rich people always lie, I forgot.

So, since the whole stadium is still in the design phase, is there something anyone can do to point out that the multi-use field part is fading? Dayton was really mad at the seat license thing and that was expressly written into the deal. Maybe he'd be mad to hear this, too?

This story is going to get really interesting. A year ago things were looking dire for professional soccer in MN. Now we have a team that has the potential to make a decent run in the Open Cup. While I know people would love to have a MLS team here the NASL isn't messing around.

Where I stand now is I would rather have a McGuire owned NASL team than a Wilf owned MLS team in Minnesota. Of course, I would love a McGuire owned MLS team but I don't think that'll be happening anytime soon.

The question is: How do we get that word out. Because the bulk of those that still don't know anything about the Stars/(new name soon-FC) as well as many who do, think that a Wilf owned MLS team would be better. While there is no question that the caliber of MLS is much better than the NASL, do we really think a situation like they have in Boston with the Kraft's and the Revolution, would be better than committed owners, even at the D2 level.

I guess that's a question each person has to answer themselves and the new owners need to prove to the soccer community in the Upper Northwest.

100% agreed. Look at what The Team That Nobody Wanted was able to accomplish without an owner vs. what a dysfunctional trainwreck the Vikings organization has been (and probably always will be), despite having consistent ownership by Wilf for nearly 10 years now.

If you think a Wilf-owned MLS team is the only thing worth precious time I do not have any interest in getting any words out to you about anything, the the possible exceptions of "bite" and "me."

I would rather the Wilf's and vikings left the state and took their stadium with them.

I hope the new dome is made to be soccer friendly because a team as far north as Minnesota may need a place to play a few games in March and April someday, just like you are doing this year. I'm not a fan of it but until somebody decides to pay for a heated surface to play outside winter games on then you have no other choice (yes, that can be done). There will not be a football or baseball team playing there during those months.
I would not play fall games inside, the chances of being snowed out in October and even November are many times lower and most times it melts off in just a few days in the fall. I have myself played in some high school playoff games in the heavy snow and it does suck for both teams.

I don't like playing soccer indoors on turf but it is kind of a reality up the the great white north when seasons get longer.

You guys should be sicking your heads inside the Vikings offices every once and a while and remind them about the mixed use idea. Make sure the guys have enough room to take corner kicks. Make sure there is somewhere for the bench players to warm up... You may need the inside dome field someday if everybody goes back to playing in the winter after the Qatar 2022 winter World Cup.

Russia switched to a winter schedule this past year. It has not worked well but they did get convinced to try it.

Salt Lake and Denver can and do get snow in March...



Some of the Mexican girls in this photo (US WNT v Mexico WNT, SLC March 2010) had never even seen snow and they played just find* in it. The game could not be postponed both teams were from out of town.

(*not really is was a complete mess).

What I don't get with the cool reception for making sure a soccer field would fit in the new stadium is that Seattle did it and everyone seems perfectly happy with the arrangement. I've never heard Seahawk fans complain or heard anyone who has visited Sea. for an NFL game claim the crowd is too far away from the action. Nor have I seen any Sounders fans claim the pitch is too narrow.

You also don't hear those fans in Seattle complaining about playing inside a dome all summer long.

You also don't hear anyone in RFK or Gillette stadium complaining... Oh wait you do hear them complain quite a bit in DC and Boston.

I would hate for that to happen and I'm not even a Vikings fan. It would be even worse in this state. Because then the Packers would get rights to this state for TV. Then kids growing up would become Packers fans and as a Bears that would be horrible.

Why? Doesn't everyone want their kids to be better off than they were?

SORRY! Couldn't resist, wrong sport, I'll go away now...

+1 funny points, even though I would be a Vikings fan if forced to care about football.

I do not want a local soccer team, MLS or otherwise, to be associated with Wilf, the Vikings, or the NFL in any way. My brother played football at a Major College Program that was filled to the brim with felonious lunatics. It is not as bad as you think kids, it is much much worse. Add lots of money and an extra dose of Darwinian brutality and you have the NFL. Then there is the minor matter of the league getting their asses sued off by former players and widows. I do not see why any soccer club would want to tie themselves to that ship.

From Grant Wahl:

Who is the worst owner in MLS?
1. The Krafts (five votes)
2. The Hunts (four votes)

His Take: Not particularly surprising, considering the Krafts (who own New England) and the Hunts (who own Columbus and Dallas) have had this kind of reputation for a while with people who follow the league closely. However, I expected Chivas USA's Jorge Vergara would have received more votes, which didn't happen. One wrinkle: Three players asked if they could vote for their own owners.


Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/soccer/news/20130227/mls-preview-player-survey/#ixzz2M7JNwmAa

The Hunt family. The family that dropped a lot of money into American professional soccer. I thing some people have a severe case of SDS. I recommend they seek a doctor and not a pshrink.

Lamar Hunt you mean. The rest of the family - not so much. I hear fans complain about them all the time but this is straight from the players.

Just look at the turn around KC had with new ownership.

The Hunt family. The family that tried to corner the silver market. They have never been an entirely benign force. Having dropped a lot of money into professional soccer in this country does not give them an indefinite pass and those who are currently unimpressed are not in need of medical attention.

On the flip side of the worst ownership group is Seattle at #2 best. Not saying this means Zigy will be an awesome owner but I think it also points out that having an NFL owner doesn't mean doom and gloom either. Lets say Dr. McGuire is actually an awesome owner of the *insert name of MN pro-soccer team here*, does all the right things to help build recognition and support; so that instead of Zigy starting up a new club he brings this team into the fold. There is no reason Zigy couldn't just offer Dr. McGuire a portion of ownership of the Vikes and a working relationship like they have out in Seattle coming about between the two clubs.

Is this what I ask Santa for every year? Naw. I'd be completely content seeing us blaze our own path, even if that means staying in the 2nd tier and having a 12k soccer specific stadium downtown. But I just think looking at the how the original NFL/MLS owners have done while ignoring how a more recent one has done is a bit one sided.

right now though; regarding the new stadium, I want to make sure it will be built to fit a FIFA sanctioned field.

I am not sure how Seattle serves as a flip side. Paul Allen is owner and chairman of the Seahawks and minority owner of the Sounders. Joe Roth is majority owner of the Sounders and has precisely nothing to do with the Seahawks.

I'll freely admit that part of my NFL objection is ethical, but it should be reasonably obvious by now that Wilf is not a soccer man. And he is not going to do anything that does not benefit him directly.

The only real connection between the Seahawks and Sounders is that (Paul Allen owned) First and Goal operates the stadium, and does sales and marketing for both teams.

Although Roth signs the checks, longtime USL Sounders owner, and avid soccer fan/player Adrian Hannaeur runs the show, a guy who understands the supporters, target demographic, the sport, and the city, and drastically reduced the team's financial losses in USL. That's why it works for them. I see the same kind of situation here, where Bill may be writing the checks, but Nick is the Liverpool fan who understands the sport and wants to keep pro soccer going in this market. They also own more than one pair of shoes, which is a good sign.