The Greenville Lions have launched a new website which can be found at WWW.GREENVILLE-LIONS.COM The site is up and running but we will be continuing to build it during the next few weeks.

It looks like a good enough start although it appears to be with the same design that the D3 club used before that loaded slowly even over the T1 here at work. How soon before the schedule comes out for the PDL?

PDL Soccer Schedule will be announced Monday, February 3rd at 3:00pm.

Actually I recognize the basic framework of the site, it has similar features to another USL site, but I won't give it away.

Schedules may be coming out but don't expect them to be set in stone, I know there was one change made just this morning. When the USL changes the schedule, they don't just say 'this is the new one' at least not in this case, they get an email from the league announcing what was wrong and the proposition to fix it and then they are given a chance to say whether it will work for them or not. My explanation is longer than the email that it sent, but that is the way it works, at least some times.

Does anyone know if the Greenville Lions are still in existence? I live about 30 minutes from Greenville and would appreciate any info regarding their recent activity.

I have read some extraordinarily critical things about the owners/managers of the Lions. I am loathe to believe everything I read, but if their website is any indication...

WWW.GREENVILLE-LIONS.COM

This comes from 3SoccerSons (above). If anyone knows of an active site for the Lions, please let me know.

CD

I just tried the site, I dont think a soccer site is supposed to have an adults only warning, which is what I got when I clicked on it.

www.soccersheet.com
(Covering the hounds and Sparks-is there a future?)

Looking for more readers

In another discussion, I learned that the Lions are not playing this year, so that explains why they let their site get taken over. I am not sure if this is a temporary hiatas for the Lions or if they are permanently out of business.

3SoccerSons, do you know anything more about the status of the Lions? What happened to them? Will they be back?

CD

The Greenville Lions franchise owned by Miguel Banda did not operate in 2004 and will not be in existence in the future as far as I know. Originally Miguel's franchise was a D3Pro (PSL),and then it moved down to PDL in 2003.

At that time, the PDL franchise which my family had owned and operated(originally in MN, Twin Cities Phoenix, and then in SC, Greenville Lions Premier)was put up for sale, as we could not have 2 PDL franchises in Greenville. Even so, we did the work for Miguel in 2003 without any compensation, but he decided not to continue on with his franchise in 2004.

My husband and I were too busy with our jobs and family to be able to do this work any longer or to reactivate our franchise - it is a massive undertaking which requires extreme devotion and a large financial commitment. We gave 5 years of our lives and money to the PDL league and felt we could no longer do so. We still do have the franchise for sale, and it can be moved anywhere in the US which is approved by USL..........so if someone is interested, you can contact us.

The PDL is a very important league for collegiate players and definitely helps to add to their development as players. Most college coaches recognize this and encourage their players to play on a PDL team in the summer months. During our 5 years in the league, we have had more than 14 of our players advance to some level of professional soccer, not to mention be better prepared for their collegiate seasons.

Interesting! You basically went to work for Banda when he scaled down to PDL, putting your own PDL up for sale. How ironic that a small market like Greenville briefly had TWO teams, but sadly now has none.

I understand why you had to get out after a while. It sounds like a grueling business... perhaps more of a love than a business? So, when you left, why did Banda decide to fold rather than find another manager? I see that he went from D3 to PDL, then closed the shop. What happened? What did him in? Lack of fans? Lack of facilities? Lack of players? I have trouble seeing any of these obvious possibilities, though. There's a large hispanic population here I've noticed, and it seems like they would support soccer, especially when the owner is named Miguel! There are lots of college facilities and land is cheap here to build on. Finally, there are plenty of players who would leap at the chance to play in front of a crowd.

It would be very interesting to understand why this club had to fold. Unfortunately for soccer enthusiasts, club closures are a reality, and it would be educational for us to know what happens in a case like this... and what we can do to help a team. Please share, and if you are still friends with Banda, it would be great if he were willing to share.

CD

P.S. I read that the minor league baseball team left Greenville this year, so maybe that will make your PDL franchise more attractive to someone. I hope you find a buyer, especially one who will keep the team here! What's a team like this cost? Up front and annual operating expense? Ballpark.

3SuccerSons,

Your silence tells me that your only reason for contributing was the remote chance of snagging a buyer for your defunct team. That's rather sad. You presented your work with the Lions as a labor of love, but it looks like you're just chasing the bucks like anyone else. I can't speak for any other forum members, but I was genuinely interested in learning about what happened to your ball club, what challenges you faced, etc., but you apparently don't care enough to spend 10 minutes on the subject. That's your perogative, of course. But it's the kind of myopia that may have lead to the demise of the Lions in the first place. The more I think about the implications of your silence, the more credence I give to some of the outright brutal critiques of your management that I read here last spring. Having said all this, I hope to see the Lions revived soon. With great AYSO, high school and college participation, I believe the Upstate is a fertile soccer community that could easily sustain a pro or semi-pro team under the right management... which you guys, with increasing apparency, are/were not. Sorry if this is overly harsh, but that's how it is.

To Cube:

It might surprise you to know that some soccer people don't hang out on soccer websites; we have lives to live, work to do, and responsibilities to our families that keep us very busy. I am one of those lucky people. I have 3 wonderful soccer playing sons who have been talented and lucky enough to play for strong Division 1 college programs and a top professional team(hence the name which you so rudely mispelled), a job, a household to run, and a husband. Yes I am a mom. Since my last posting I have been out of town, watching my youngest son play his senior collegiate season.

For over 5 years, my family has given an unbelieveable amount of time, money, and love of the game to support a PDL team so that other young men might have the opportunities and the benefits which our sons have had through this program. Very seldom did we ever receive a thank you from anyone. More often it is someone like you who openly criticizes when they really haven't a clue about the reality of running a team such as this. We are just an average mom and dad, not financially wealthly in any way, and after 5 years of devotion, we could no longer do this. My husband and I did the work of an entire staff by ourselves, and I can't tell you how many nights my head did not see a pillow until after 2:00am. We did not get involved in the USL to be team owners; we got involved with the PDL team in Minnesota to save it when the MN Thunder felt they could no longer be involved financially or otherwise. Everything evolved from there.

We did everything we could possibly do to keep this franchise in Greenville, including offering it to the largest youth soccer club for a much reduced price so that they could keep this available for their players. But they were unfortunately unable to get their membership to commit to this venture. (Having a youth club own a franchise is a perfect scenario because they can usually operate as a non profit and they have many of the things needed already in place, such as fields, volunteers, sponsorships, coaches, etc.)

To operate a franchise well you need $60,000 - $80,000 a year (or more) in funds and/or sponsorships. Some teams spend much more than this. It is not easy to get corporate sponsorships which actually pay you money - many of them are tradeouts which help a lot but don't pay bills. You need many volunteers to give freely of their time and talents. The season may only be 4 months long, but the work goes on all year.

Getting fans in the stands is not that easy, even with extensive advertising which we did. People are just apathetic when it comes to actually showing up and buying tickets, and there are only 9 home games to bring in money. We engaged the Hispanic communities in our activities and even sponsored a Latino Cup tournament (with games played before the PDL games) which went on during the entire PDL season in 2003. This still did not bring the Hispanic population to our games.

We have also had 2 other entities commit to buying our franchise, only to back out of their commitment, because of financial reasons. It has been extremely frustrating.

As to players wanting to play - yes they are out there, but they are not always as committed as they should be, given the opportunity they have been afforded. Playing on a PDL team is a privilege, but it requires travel on weekends and practice 2-4 times a week. PDL teams have become very competitive, and coaches now recruit players just like collegiate coaches.
The PDL team must be a player's priority, and it is a huge commitment; college kids often want time off in the summer months rather than this responsiblity.

As for Miguel Banda, his primary business was involved in the textile industry, and as you may know, that industry has taken a hit during the last few years. I believe he felt he could no longer afford to operate his franchise.

We would love to see the PDL team back here in SC, but until someone is willing to follow in our footsteps, it will not happen. I hope you understand things a little better now and will not continue with your critical pursuit.

I'd love to see a PDL or Division 2 club back in Greenville -- I really think it is a great market. However, the only way it is going to work is if someone with really deep pockets steps up (like the ownership we have in Charleston). Maybe one day (when I finally make some money) I can bring pro soccer back to Greenville (it could be a while).

I think the non-profit angle and having the team run by a soccer club does makes a lot of sense especially at the PDL level.

3SoccerSons,

Of course you don't hang out at Soccer forums all the time. Who does? But don't take your sarcastic attitude with me. When I first asked you a question (giving you the opportunity to hang out your For Sale sign again), you responded in 9 hrs. and 58 minutes... after having been absent from the forum for a year and 10 months! So, apparently, you DO hang out enough to chime in when you feel like it.

I praised your efforts in soccer. Don't you dare accuse me of not giving praise when it is deserved. No one, least of all me, will criticize your "labor of love," as I nicely called it. What I had doubts about is your ability to successfully manage a team. I am not criticizing your heart, nor your intentions, nor your love of the game. And I don't have enough data to say you or Banda were poor managers. I don't know, one way or the other. My curiosity is this: the Upstate is a fertile soccer community, so how can a semi-pro club fail so utterly? The Lions had great players and coaches. You finished second in the nation in your first year! The community here is a very pro-soccer community. The people are economically well-off. What's left? The business end. That's why I suspect the management had a poor business strategy (or no business strategy) and must have made poor decisions. I remember there were some issues that they sank money into a stadium where most middle class people were afraid to go! How dumb is that? But I stress that I only suspect the management by a process of elimination of other possibilities. I obviously wasn't even living here at the time, so I have no first hand knowledge of what went on. That's why I asked YOU.

I guess what it boils down to is how to make good intentions translate into success. I mean, it is obvious that you and Banda worked hard, but did you work smart? I don't mean this as an insult. I mean, if your product is good (the Lions on the field were very good) and your customer is there (the Upstate likes soccer), how can the marriage be made? Respectfully, this may require professionals. People who know, for instance, how to get their hands on a sparkling stadium that people will love to come to, etc. I don't know if a textile guy and a mom can effectively connect the dots. I honestly am not trying to be insulting. Just the opposite. I appreciate very much what you and your friends have tried to do for the game, but it sounds like Banda would have been a great sponsor and you would have been a great assitant, but that a real pro should have been given the helm.

With respect,

CD

PS, Wellington, I agree that a non-profit angle would be great. It just seems so natural to me that there should be a PDL team here for all the college players who graduate and want to keep playing for five or six years. I see no reason that they couldn't practice 3 times a week after work, travel to away games on the weekends, hold on to a little sports-glory and make a few bucks in the process. They might not be as good as a fulltime team, but, hey, they'd be competitive and fun to watch. There are adult amateur teams in the area, and if they can do it, I see no reason why 22 guys in their mid-20s couldn't do it.

PS, 3SoccerSons, I just read over your reply again and noticed that you very slyly never really told us why the team failed, just that the money didn't pour in from the fans and sponsors. Why? was the question. What did Banda try? What worked? What didn't? Upon retrospect, what mistakes did he make? Does he regret the stadium? What kind of field would he get now if he had it to do over again? What segment of the population did he target? Did he use radio or TV or print? What kind of attendence did the various media outlets generate? Does he feel that he got the most return for his advertisement dollars, or that he should have tried different media? Did he send the mascot to the mall with free tickets on Saturday afternoon? Did his creative efforts bring results? Did he agree to too many road trips and hence spend too much there? Did he go after the big corporate sponsor too hard or not hard enough? What percentage of his annual expenditure was covered by sponsorship, and how does this compare to the league average? What tactics did he learn from successful owners in the league, and which did he adopt? Being in textiles, did he go after foreign investment? Did he use his connections in textiles to advance sponsorship or publicity for the Lions? I don't expect you to answer all this, but these are the sort of questions that answer WHY the club went under. Just saying that no one in Greenville decided to cough up $60,000 a year for you isn't really an answer. That's the problem. The answer lies in asking, "Why didn't they? What specifically turned them off about sponsoring the Lions, and what did you do to fix it?" In short, which of your actions brought results, and which, upon retrospect, were mistakes?

You have some good questions, but your really asking the wrong person those questions. They were only involved with the Lions for the last season when the Lions were in the PDL. Before that they had a PDL team in Minnesota and moved to Greenville. You have to understand that most of the groups that are involved in the PDL have limited resources available in the running of the team. So when this is the case, you keep to the basics that are needed to run the team. Again you have some good ideas and questions, but when just a couple of people are doing everything, there are just so many hours in the day or week. Having been involved with a PDL team, just doing the basics can take up a lot of your time.

Also, you might not get sarcasism from people if you were less confrontational with them.

Perhaps if they would be just a tad forthcoming, I wouldn't be so confrontational.

I resent that these Lions people are all over the boards when they have something that they want to push, but when they are asked a question, all we get is white-washed crap.

I'm not so sure that I'm asking the wrong person. I mean, sure, this is just some nice, sweet, well-meaning housewife, but, nonetheless, she is (was) an integral part of the Lions, and I doubt that she sunk her time and money into the Lions without getting a pretty good idea about what had been going on in the operation. And she is the only Lion willing to speak up at all, so you gotta make do, right? It's too bad Banda won't participate, but I'm not surprised. Look, here is the awful truth. The Lions management are a bunch of abject failures. That is why they have nothing to say. Had they been successful, I'm sure we'd be hearing all about it.

CD

P.S. She doesn't have to be a genius or the CEO to discuss the issues, such as the stadium. Her unwillingness only shows that she knows that the management is the reason for the demise, and that I'm on to it. If I want to see some soccer in the future, I'm going to the colleges. To heck with the idiot Lions.

look who had to pop up again. thought you were done with your idiotic ramblings CubeDog? nope, instead, we're subjected to you heaping more crap on top of an already dead issue. first of all - the Lions aren't around anymore. they folded. closed. moved on. it just shows how much of an idiot you are that you don't even have a clue that they don't exist, and haven't, for almost two years. second, don't go on here thinking anyone owes you anything. 3SoccerSons doesn't owe you any sort of explanation and doesn't have to be forthcoming about any of the Lions financial info or why the team failed or any private issues of the like. now, if you had acted reasonably and not like some disgruntled postal worker, she might have privately shared some of her insight into running a PDL franchise with you. but you didn't. you came on here throwing accusations and harrassing her - remember the "3SuccerSons" you addressed her as? treating people like garbage will get you nothing. also, you might have noticed no one else on here is discussing the Lions any more...why? because that's history. why don't you just move on? everyone else seems to have.

That has to be the best first-post (yea right) I've read in a long time.

Bring back the Shamrocks!

I'm not going to beat a dead horse, but if pro soccer can work in Charleston there is no reason why Greenville cannot support a team. However, the big thing that hurt the Lions (both D3 and PDL) was the location of the stadium (even though that part of town is on the rise). For a team to do well they need to be located in the eastern part of Greenville/Greer.

Another point... I think 3SoccerSons was primarily interested in the Lions PDL team because of their son at Clemson. So, it was unlikely that they would have had long term interest in the team anyway. I'm not criticizing them for that, but that just seems to be my impression (I could be wrong, too).

Cost of a PDL Franchise $$$

Does anyone know this info? Please let me know. Thanks,

Tony.