I was watching the U.S. in the Copa America, losing both matches to Argentina and Paraguay.
It was known, prior to the tournament, that many of the regulars would be out particularly Landon Donovan. Yet head coach Bob Bradley had mentioned this tournament being a prelude to the next World Cup and how important it was for us.
It was good to see Eddie Johnson and Ricardo Clarke score for us. But(imo) the U.S. seemed tentative at times and, with all due respect to goalkeeper Kasey Keller(who I still see as among the best), he was strong in the opening halves, but he looked average in the second half, giving up the goals. Of course the defense was not helping him. And the miscue by Jimmy Conrad that gave Paraguay the lead for good.
It was good to see Taylor Twellman in there, but where was his Revs teammate Clint Dempsey, or DeMarcus Beasley or others who were missing? Tim Howard could have been used for the Paraguay match to give Keller a rest.
Maybe Bradley was trying to rest most of the regualers after a successfull Gold Cup tournament, but maybe he should have save the regulars for this and played the reserves.
We need to beat Colombia. Any other thoughts?

"Any other thoughts?"

Yes, you are a know nothing racist midnight.

Wow...I think I missed something in Midnight's post...like what are you talking about, Doc?

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I loved the goal Andres Guardado scored on the USA best goal of the match
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Spoken like a true Mexican fan [Roll Eyes]

And, Scrump, it's typical of a Mexican coach to say something like that.

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Re the Mexican coach thinking they were the better team.

Doc! I'm not trying to offend any one with my posts,something I learned from the past and will try my hardest to not do it again.

But wouldn't you say the same about the Goals U.S Scored on Mexico? And don't you think a lot of Coaches of strong Teams like Mexico and US would say the Samething when they loose against a nother Team that is strong as they are? Believe me or not I love the U.S. Team and I considere it as my Second Team but when it comes to Mexico vs USA I rather support my country Instead of USA.If one day Mexico doesn't cualify to the World Cup and US does then I will Support it as if it was my favorite Team.

Leo,
The comment was against midnight, and not you.

His offensive comments about you and the Mexican coach having a point of view is typical of his crap.

I have seen games that I know the better team lost, and have seen games where the lone goal in a heavy defeat was the best goal of the game.

Rest assured I was not having a go at you Sir.

This is one reason that I never respond to you anymore, Scrump(unless in the rare event you post something that has something to do with soccer). No matter what I post, you have something negative to say, which gets tiring.
I respect Leo'o, despite who he roots for, because I can expect rational responses from him.
My original post to start this topic, was my observation of the U.S. so far and I was hoping to get rational thoughts from others on the topic.
As for my qoute, it was only meant as a joking sarcasm toward a Mexican fan, which I forgot to add a smile to. Nothing personal.

He says as he responds to him

Funny how you always use that excuse when called out on something. You would think you would be more careful in the future about remembering to do so if this were really the case.
Otherwise, have you ever heard the story of the boy that cried wolf?

'Qoute' away, we all know it was a disgraceful remark to make no matter whether in jest or serious.

Every coach at sometime or another in every sport knows his/her team played better and lost.


For anyone who listens to Howard Stern, midnight is the Eric the midget of these boards.

I feel compelled to say that I think that you are way off on this one. Not just for the sake of playing the "devil's advocate" or because I think that people pick on the kid sometimes. This has nothing to do with midnight. Not this time; I'm concerned about what really seems to be the casual use of the word "racism".

While I sincerely appreciate your commitment to confront racism, sometimes you come off as a bit overzealous. I admire the intent, but this seems like one of those times.

You could have replaced the word "Mexican" with "Dallas Cowboys".

You could have replaced "Mexican" with "Western Mass Pioneers". Especially in the USL. Not too many people have a high opinion of Western Mass' coaching staff, players or fans but I would not label anyone here racist if they substituted "Western Mass" with "Mexico" in the preceeding quote.

"Stereotypical"??? Sure. "Prejudiced"? OK. A lot of posts on this board are "stereotypical" or "prejudiced" against whatever club and it's supporters (again, just looked at Rochester and Western Mass--two good US based examples). But "racist"?!?! Where was the "racism"?

There was no "racism" in the statement that you quoted. There was a reference to what many would consider (as you alluded to) a history of not giving credit where it is due. The leap to "racism" is a huge one.

That is a really strong accusation. When that word gets used lightly it devalues it.

The term 'Mexican' makes it racist for some of us.

Would it have been any less offensive if he had said ' it is typical of a green-skinned man to say that ' ?

Apologies to anyone who is actually green.

I think the point of concern was primarily the use of "Mexican fan".

As if the central point were being emphasis on ethnicity as opposed to supporting a team. The keep point not being coz you are a fan of that team, coz you are Mexican.

I think that is what Scrumpy was getting at. I could see a misunderstanding about that. Having said that, I still wouldn't automatically categorize it as "racist" (at least not as it is used in English--In Spanish, any sort of dscrimination based on ethnicity or nationality is often described as "racist").

Like I said, I don't think the kid was talking about ethnicity. He was talking about a team and supporter(s) of a team and his main point had absolutely nothing to do with racism. It was all about team XYZ. Had nothing to do with genetics.

What's the difference between the Mexican National team, and Mexico National team...or the Canadian National team, and Canada National team?

Or the English National team versus England National team...

I do not see the racism here, am I being naive? Or am I, too, a racist...? I think if I were a racist, my husband and my child would have told me by now, as they are of Mexican descent...

And I found it offensive because I don't believe for a second that he was talking about the National Team. I will admit that I base that not only on what has been brought up here but also on statements that he has made in the past.
And Yanki, this so called "kid" that you think gets picked on is probably old enough to be your dad or at least darn close to it.

That is subjective, of course. That is the sticking point. I try to start from a point of "good faith" unless I have reason to believe otherwise. I am not familiar with the other statements that you are referring to.
I wasn't trying to be disrespectful to midnight. I am sorry if it came of that way.

Kid is very much a hip hop vernacular expression sometimes used for anyone under 40 or so. It is like saying "muchacho" in Spanish.

It is a term of endearment. I in no way meant to insult midnight. I was not aware that he is was that much my senior or i would have never used the expression. I thought that he was around my age or younger.

My apologies...No offense was intended.

He is the 50 year old virgin.

No apologies necessary Yanki. And I wasn't trying to imply that I thought you were trying to insult him or anything like that. I know you wouldn't do that at all to him
What it did sound like though was that you thought he was young (which apparently you did think) and therefore maybe shouldn't be picked on, because of his age.
I just wanted to make sure that you (and everyone else who didn't know) knew that Chuckles is not some young innocent kid. He is a man that more than likely knows exactly what he is saying and how it comes out.

Get a life. This makes no sense. Mexican means someone from Mexico. Just like Italian means someone from Italy or American is someone from America. Besides, it's a message board. Get a life.

The word Mexican is not racist, but the sentiment expressed was.

[/QUOTE]Get a life. This makes no sense.... Besides, it's a message board. Get a life. [/QB][/QUOTE]

This coming from someone posting on the message board, with 249 posts to their credit? That's very funny.

Get a life. This makes no sense.... Besides, it's a message board. Get a life. [/QUOTE]

I guess that I got zippy cred, then... :rolleyes:

By the way, congratulations to Mexico and their third place finish at Copa America. They beat Brazil in round play and showed the quality team that they are. It does make a difference to take your best team to an important tournament. While I take my hat off to coach Bradley for trying a risky strategy to get some key guys some experience, I must wonder how we (USA) really match up with the best teams in the world. We (USA) beat Mexico in the Gold Cup who finished third in Copa America - would we have been in that spot or in the championship game with our best, or was the Gold Cup win a fluke? We don't really know at this point. Now we have to wait until the next World Cup to find out - I call that a missed opportunity.

It's not a fluke when we constantly beat them on US soil. Just like us always losing at Azteca isn't a fluke for Mexico.

We always beat Mexico at home. They always beat us in Azteca. If Gold Cup final is played in Azteca, things wouln't look so good for USA.

Mexico always plays World Class teams better than they play USA on US soil--(even with Pro-Mexico crowds) better than we play World Class teams not named Mexico. We are in their heads. The superior talent chokes.

That's just my take.

By the way, I am normally not a violent man but I have some very unpleasant thoughts for Bob Bradley, the USSF, MLS management and babies who wanted to rest before retuning back to Europe for not playing in Copa America. What a wasted opportunity. Mexico sent their best, right after the Gold Cup. Argentina sent their best.

I think that most people in this country realize that we are no Argentina but I think that a whole lot of US Soccer fans have experienced a real reality check in the last year or two. We need to stop designing our team to beat Mexico and start designing our team to beat other World Class teams. The fans are ready for it. Last year's US fans support at the World Cup demonstrated that. Now we just need the USSF and the players to buy into it. I mean REALLY buy into it and not just lip service.

I agree, Yankiboy. I think it was Bradley's decision to rest to use the reserves in the C.A. Very bad choice!! I think it was one of the tournament reps who blasted the U.S. choice for using reserves instead of bringing our best. I'll never figure out what Bradley was thinking on that. He should have treated it like a world cup tournament.

Well, they are trying to keep the clubs happy and quiet...its the middle of the season for us here, as opposed to off-season in the rest of the world...

what's more important, keeping our MLS teams happy, or helping our national team succeed in a annual tournament with the world watching?

Was the world really watching, I doubt most fans in Europe care that much about the CA.

But I agree that the team could have been somewhat better, maybe mixing in those European based players with the younger home-based talent.

Then the MLS lot could have been appeased that they had the likes of Landon Donovan available.

I'm in the minority, it seems, but I still think Bradley did the right thing, given the situation. Copa America 2007 was, basically, meaningless for the US in terms of results. The real goal is more long-term: South Africa 2010. Those kids got some very valuable experience playing in Venezuela against some tough competition.

Say what you want about CONCACAF being weak, the Gold Cup being meaningless, whatever, but the Gold Cup was more important *to the US* than Copa America. It's our home region's championship, plus the opportunity to play in the 2009 Confederations Cup, where players will be exposed to top international competition and get a sneak peek at what it will be like at the World Cup in South Africa.

I agree that it is important for youth and inexperienced to gain experience. Just not on a mainstage like Copa America. Let them see action in exhibition matches against bigger teams. As Bradley himself pointed out before the tournament, the Copa America is a 'stepping stone' to the World Cup and how we performed in that was a huge event in the eyes of other countries. But we blew it!! With respect to the CONCACAF Gold Cup, that's a small tournament, unlike the C.A..

KJ is one of my Minnesota homies but I completelt disagree with him on this one.

I'm beyond ticked off about it. And if our Olympic team doesn't qualify (again) or qualifies and doesn't do jack, I will get ticked off all over again. I can remember them going out like scrubs, getting waxed in Mexico during the last qualifying. I am still amazed that David Testo was playing for the RIchmond Kickers and he got called up to play in those qualifiers. He did absolutely NOTHING. Don't get me started on that. They got WAXED.
Gold Cup has done nothing to improve US soccer. If we are supposed to be looking to the future then Copa America is the tournament that will help us improve.

Does anyone remember the last debacle of a Confedrations' Cup that we participated in. We found an excuse to not take that one seriously. We went out like busters last time we participated. If we took the last Confederations' cup more seriously, then I would be more inclined to agree with my guy, KJ. Instead, it just makes the whole debacle look even more triflin'.

USSF got the ca$h for winning Gold Cup. OK. It is a ca$h and carry business. I can accept that. I just want for people in this country to realize that we aren't going to progress if we make our goal is to be able to beat Mexico on US soil, the rest of our CONCACAF neighbors and qualifying. That didn't get us too much last time out. Or in France in 98.

After seeing some of those kids play, I'm not sure that I want them on the Olympic team.

I am ^@*@#(@) off!

The proof will be in the fruit.
I have about had it with the USSF. If your are going to lead then do it ^*#*#(@!

We'll just have to agree to disagree. The Gold Cup mattered more to me because it's our home tournament. Just like you can't choose who your family is, you can't choose where your country is located (unless you're Australia, I guess).

Home tournament is fine. But when your country competes against the world in the W.C., you want your absolute best. The Gold Cup is just a stepping stone. The U.S. has not competed(to my knowledge) in the Copa America in 11 years, which made it even more important for us.

Okey dokey.
Ginger? Mary Anne?
I say Mary Anne. Ginger was sexy but Mary Anne left more to the imagination.

As Suz will verify, my vote in that debate is sewn up.

Yep, I would say so