From a few years back...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/magazine/features/si50/states/oregon/

Oregon's second-favorite pro team? SEATTLE MARINERS. favorite NFL team? SEATTLE Seahawks.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/magazine/features/si50/states/washington/

Washington's BIGGEST state rival? California!

Your honesty is refreshing.

http://members.lycos.co.uk/mysticalchicken/pvss.html

Finally, the essential installment of the debate of the ages is published.

Some people can't make up their minds *either* way.

http://www.yarnharlot.ca/blog/archives/2005/08/04/i_like_portland.html


http://www.yarnharlot.ca/blog/archives/2005/08/05/seattle.html

Knitters are so politcally correct.

I'm a big Seahawks fan and have been for almost 30 years but have never had any Seattle-envy.

But if it makes you feel better living some fantasy that we down here in Portland wish we were in Seattle, by all means, do continue.

And if I ever run into anybody down here that has Seattle-envy, I'll be sure to let you know.

Go Seahawks!





http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/photogalleries/seahawks1029/

Bringing Washingtonians and Oregonians together...since...last Saturday!

hmm i didn't know this was a grid iron forum

what does crack me up is the delusional thinking of all the seattle "fans". we are jealous of you? are you serious? you have no support, no atmosphere and no idea. you probably don't even know what the offside rule is. you try to convince yourselves that we are jealous of you by using stupid analogies on your forums, (i saw the photoshop thread too, that was pathetic) and any portlander who replies to your posts is branded jealous for merely trying to set the record straight.

sure portland isn't the best team, nor is the city all that pretty, but our support is top notch. the amount of, and the passion of timbers fans is fantastic. and for a town less than half the size of seattle, this makes you look really really bad in comparison.

you may hide behind your precious championships for now, but off the pitch you are very much beneath us.

Do you need to be "Hooked on 'Phonics"? Where in this thread was it ever said "the TA is jealous of the ECS"? Because I sure don't see it. The thread is about PORTLANDERS being jealous of SEATTLE. And the posts on your own board back this up. Take a look at the thread Finny started, entitled "Skins fans unite (or if you just hate Sh**tle). A total Seattle hatefest, starting with the title. The whole was filled with hate, and not just about the Seahawks, with a couple notable exceptions (thank you Allison A and BigTimeMick for standing up for the 'Hawks). So maybe before you decide to trash someone you should get your facts straight.

you idiot.
if you hate something you are jealous of it? i hate nazis, am i jealous of them? no. typical sounders fans, trying to talk down to us to cover up your own inadequacies.

f.u.c.k off and die

You are obviously jealous of Seattle. You always discuss how much you hate anything even realted to Seattle. You never mention hating anything else. As thanatos80 points out, the proof is on your own board. So, go get a reality check because it is clear that any mention of Seattle gets your undees in a bundle.

With every post you make you keep proving our point. Did you even bother clicking on the SI links in the first post? Probably not, since if you had, you would know just what this whole thread was about. From SI:
THE SI POLL
Oregonians
State's biggest rival
Washington 52%
Washingtonians
State's biggest rival
California 51%
As you can see, most Oregoonians are fixated on their neighbors to the north, while we Washingtonians, on the other hand, could pretty much care less about the roadbump that seperates us from Cali. Also, if you want to make this just about Sounders/Timbers (which it never was until you trolled in), the consensus on who our biggest rivals are was Vancouver, NOT Portland.
And finally, you should take some lessons on posting from Allison A. While I disagree with her on which footy side to support, I respect her posts because she keeps them on topic, does not make personal attacks, and, most of all, she doesn't need to use profanity to get her point across.

no i didn't check the links coz i don't give a **** about what gridiron team some yokels follow. nor could i give two ****s about whether portland is a nicer city than seattle. im not from here, not even from this country, this lame argument does not phase me. personally i think seattle is a nice place, i know some good dj's from there. but as fans of the sounders you really are pathetic, whinging tossers who know nothing about supporting a football team (hence all the "hooligan" taunts directed to us)and you wish you the type of support portland timbers has. as does most of the league i imagine.

oh and you might want to check your own message board for ridiculous, insecure comments about portland also.

well thats it from me, see you gals on the 2nd of June! xoxoxo

If by that you mean we've never been arrested at or after a match, true! If by that you mean that we don't take ourselves nearly as seriously as you...again, true! If by that you mean that we are not there for our lads...FALSE!

Now *that's* just precious. Trust me, sinking to that level is not on anyone's agenda north of the Columbia River.

Later, girlfriend!

Well, there IS a gal who unfortunately won't be able to make the 6/2 match, but is looking forward to being at the 7/22 match, and won't it be precious seeing the TA having the smackdown laid on them by a 13 year old GIRL!!!!

I've heard exactly that argument from Fuskie fans for some time now... acting like USC was a bigger rival than Oregon.

Look where the Fuskies are now.

Ask the CALIFORNIANS who their biggest rival are. I guarantee you it ain't Washington, and attempting to act like California is a rival to you has no economic impact whatsoever (which is why you guys try to parrot that off in the first place).

Heck, we had the "Don't Californicate Oregon" bumper stickers FORTY years ago. We're over it. I suggest you follow suit.

At least you are back on topic!

The SI survey did note that New York is also considered a big Seattle sports rival. Probably Mariners-Yankees.

The deal is that Seattle has the "Major League sports" edge in a big way over PDX. So, in the sporting realm, Seattle ignores Portland. All of the "big action" and world-class outdoor stadia are up here. PDX is off in the shadows, and the Blazers certainly are not enough to save that.

Both cities rightly have civic pride. But, again, we are talking sports here. Seattle made the move long ago to associate itself with the other big cities of the country when it found owners for NFL and MLB clubs.

Seattle are "the big boys." Portland are not. Seattle has developed teams with gigantic regional followings. Portland has not. Seattle is the "Majors." Portland is the "Minors."

Tacoma has felt the same way to a degree, but lately that city's residents have begun to do just what Portland's have: follow Seattle's regional teams.

In soccer, both Seattle and Portland are in the "Minors," though I prefer to look at it from a "second division" world POV. In the pro-soccer sporting realm Seattle have 4 championships and play in a classy waterfront stadium. Portland have no championships and play in what could be a great little park if the seats were aligned better and the turf was changed. It is still a "Minor League" park, though, compared to Qwest.

So finally we get to the "Fans." Seattle has more fans that Portland in pro sports...because we have more teams. If you take just the teams/leagues we share, then *traditonally* the Blazers have more faithful fans than the Sonics, and the Sounders have a longer history with better attendance than the Timbers.

However...

NOW (2005), the Blazers are faltering right along with the Sonics, failing to sell out the Rose Garden, and the Timbers nearly double the Sounders average attendance.

So PDX can take pride in their better attendance numbers for the USL-1 Timbers.


I think Seattle's sports fans have become spoiled and complacent. The landscape up here has changed drastically in the last 20 years.

Portland has embraced their USL-1 Timbers with nice crowds and a huge supporters group, while Seattle, with EVERYTHING going for it, including winning titles and playing in a centrally-located state of the art stadium, continues to ignore the Sounders.

The ECS are in large part just a few people who remember the 'better days' of the NASL and who hang out the shingle in hopes more people will see a few flags and drums and drop on by. Sure, we love our team and have lots of fun...but we have been unable (as have the Sounders to a greater degree) to get anyone else in "Major League" Seattle to join the cause in any great rush. We pick up 8-10 new joiners a season. So, by 2020 we should be HUGE!

PS:

Winterhawks outdraw the Thunderbirds, but I'm not sure about the Everett Silvertips. (WHL Hockey)

Tacoma Rainiers outdraw the Portland Beavers.
(PCL baseball)

For a city that supposedly thinks of Portland as a backwater Seattle’s leaders sure spend alot of time trying to model their plans after what we do down here.

Don't believe me? Want to know how many tours of our transit system I gave to Seattle leaders when I worked at TriMet? Want to know how many questions they asked about our land use planning?

I really know of no one who lives in Portland who wants to live or even thinks about Seattle. In fact the opposite is true - some of my close friends moved down here to get away from the place. Portlanders take pride that they are NOT Seattle and Seattle leaders spend all their time trying to figure out how they can turn back the clock and make their city more like Portland.

As for sports – you guys take all this pride in your billion dollar taxpayer funded boondoogle stadiums when we take pride in the fact that our mayor recently said to a visiting Florida Marlin delegation – “ Welcome. But don’t expect any tax dollars to subsidize your team or stadium”. Different priorities I guess – Portanders recreate while Seattlites watch others recreate. One look at the ECS and the Timbers Army confirms that theory.

As for footy:

If it helps you justify the sad turnout for the ECS and the Sounders in general by spouting this "major league" versus "minor league" city nonsense then by all means go for it.

I have long since realized that you guys don't actually intend on doing anything about your sad turnout and instead focus on excuses like the one above.

As for Seattle versus Portland in general. I hate all Seattle sports teams and that is directly because of the Sounders. I used to not give a lick about anything up there but now I find myself directly cheering against a Seattle team at every chance. Last week's defeat to the SeaChickens only solidified that intense dislike - my buddy called from D.C. during the game and basically said - what was up with all the dorky signs? I said “That’s Seattle.”

I am not a native Oregonian so this whole topic seems absurd to me. A few years back at a Sounders game a soccer mom was trying to slag me because, in her words, "You are jealous we have the Mariners and Seahawks." Interesting comment to make at a soccer match and one that is completely off the mark.

The percentage of people in Oregon who are jealous of Seattle is very low. The percentage of people in Oregon who support Seattle sports is reasonably high. The reason: the teams are always on tv here. If you grow up in Portland, the Mariners are likely your hometown team. I have no problem with that. If you grow up in South Carolina the Braves are your hometown team. Yet, Georgia is your biggest rival.

I've found in life that the people who have the greatest need to pound their chest and proclaim their greatness are the ones who are also the most insecure. This applies to both people in Seattle who shout their sport superiority and people in the TA who shout their supporter superiority.

But what do I know? I'm a lifelong Philly fan.

Nice post TR, as always you are direct, concise, and on topic, without having to resort to the name calling and profanity that others can't seem to do without. Too bad more of the TA can't be like you, then maybe we could have the kind of "friendly" fan rivalry like we have with the Southsiders.

Hey Finnegan, how pathetic was the TA in 2000? And how fast has it grown since you got (somewhat) organized? We all bemoan the lack of interest the sport has in this country. Maybe, instead of spewing your haterade everywhere, you should think of constructive ways to increase the size of the ECS. An idea that came to me was to have both our groups become local chapters of Sam's Army. That way, by helping each other with increasing our numbers, we help Sam's Army as well, which in turn helps the national teams and the sport in general. But, then again, except for a few notable exceptions (TR, AA), constructive, positive dialogue seems to be a foreign concept to the TA.

In defense of Finnegan and others in the TA, there have been offers of ways to help ECS grow in past years. Some of our suggestions have been received and some ignored. I think one common ground is the Cascadia Cup, which SC-1 deserves a lot of credit for working on and which all three groups could be more involved with in promoting.

As for Sam's Army, you won't get too many takers in the TA since frankly Sam's Army has been very lame and/or hostile in our past experiences. Good thought though. Finding common ground and all that...

Yep. I know Seattle supporters who would agree with that. Sam's Army has been completely unhelpful of both our area and USA support in our area. Example: the joke surrounding 2005 Gold Cup tickets/Sam's Army section.

PS: Really enjoyed these last few sets of posts. Great job everyone.

I will say that chest-thumping about winning the 2005 USL-1 title is OK in my book. And I am not the least bit insecure about the Sounders.

How in the world is that going to happen?

The TA is its own unique organic experience, not replicable here. Besides, wouldn't Seattle counter-culturists be peeved at a PDX assist in this type of thing? And what if the help from Portland WORKED? What then? Seattle would *never* hear the end of it!

I say if Finney or whomever have friends in Seattle (gasp! ) who they think could get some new blood into a Seattle supporters group, then they should encourage that.

As for the ECS. We almost *always* say yes. So, if a bunch of people showed up who really wanted to go the "TA route," then I am quite sure that things would evolve that way.

Some people are giving us (ECS) wayyyy too much credit if they think we are somehow organized and "strong enough" to be quelling "real footy support" for the Sounders.

I have given alot of suggestions and advice over the years but I am afraid the vehicle from which it came (me) did not make it always receivable.

I also do not think that what happened in Portland with the T.A. is an unique "perfect storm". That would dsicount the massive work done by the early folks and the work being done today. It takes a few people who are willing to never shut up about the ECS and Sounders to make this go.

If I were to suggest one thing to ECS it would be to change your demographic and get some media coverage. We were able wrangle media coverage when were not that much bigger than you guys today. Hustle, bug, hustle and bug bug bug. Talk up your gameday activities. Make them sound larger than life. The Stranger is always looking for some angle that involves heavy alcohol use and locals.

As for changing your demographic - that is hard but needs to be done. Forget the students. Too busy and self absorbed. Forget the "footy fans" - self absorbed and arrogant. Go after that 20 something, hanging around and looking for something to do. Choose a bar other than Kells no matter how good they are to you. Go somewhere where people will ask "Whatcha about?".

Oh and each member of the ECS should buy an extra ticket if they can afford to do so and bring it to that bar, or send an email to your friends saying the first who shows up gets it ( I did this for two seasons).

Finally I will say this - rivalries are a great thing. They make sports tick. They focus the "tribes" and help to organize folks. Do you realize how many people we have gotten involved over the years simply because of the "hatred" of the Flounders? It creates community.

Thanks for the ideas, Finnegan.

They will be brought up for discussion at our upcoming meeting in early February.

Another area for common ground or rivalry. You guys should go to Seattle Seawolves game in Tukwilia on Feb. 25. Not only can you root against Portland but you can heckle Finnegan, who just got a signing bonus of $45 to play.

http://www.thedisl.com/