The Truth Hurts...

Timbers Army! Proud Supporters of the Great Rose City!


Hmmm...can you say 1000 strong


Emerald City Junk:

The excitement in the ECS section!!


ECS on their way to the game...

You're 2.5 hours away...this is all you could bring?



not to mention your flag is on backwards, lol.

That picture's from 2003, or didn't you see that in the copyright?

Sheesh, at least look before you post :rolleyes:

alrighty...

here is 2 years later
and 4 more people

:p

Honestly, don't they have these up there?

I KNEW we were growing! And not just our beer guts. All FIVE of us just LOVED that ***-whipping the fallen trees took over the weekend!


Love this stuff! More!

Emerald City Supporters during a Seattle Goal:


Timbers Army during a Portland Goal:


...not trying to rub it in because really their is no need to...just making sure you Flounders recognize.

You are so big. You are just huge. You are awesome! Hey, what's that happening on the field? Oh, who cares...you are so awesome. So BIG! You guys have LOTS of fans. You s-o-o-o-o rock! I just hope there is at least one MORE photo of YOU GUYS to post!


Hey, the Timbers could fold and you wouldn't even know it for a couple of seasons. Why? Because you guys ROCK! You TOTALLY, RADICALLY, AWESOMELY ROCK! No one, I mean NO ONE is as good as you GUYS!

Where's that mirror...Just checking my hair. I rock! I am so-o-o-o-o hot....

My god! I am invisible!

Just like the ECS...and the Timbers playoff hopes!

You can't see EITHER one!


------------------------------------------------
ECS: Invisible, Fat and Quiet since 1974

awesome...I am glad you now finally recognize, bout d@mn time :rolleyes: .

Okay next task...now next I want you to bow down on your knees and worship the Timbers Army at the next game, calling us all kings and queens of Cascadia.

cruel aren't I

What next game. Nobody is sure your team is even going to be around next season.

Hahahaha!

And even though we are so small, we are all you can think about.

Grow up Portland, grow up...

what are you going to do...cry? It's a rivals board wuss, if you can't take the pain, then don't play the game.

Once you grow some hair on your balls, move out from your parents house, and become a valued member of society, then your opinions might hold some weight.

So, will you stop supporting the Timbers when it's no longer the "cool" thing to do?
Like K-Head said, there are quite a few older and out of shape TA that you guys seem to be forget about when you slam on the ECS.

That's why I think you need to grow up.
You only throw out Jr. High insults.

Hmm, Jr. High or not, it seems to be rattling all of you, so apparently it works, lol. You Sounder fans are so lame, learn how to throw mud back into someones face when it has been thrown into yours. I post a few pics, and say some comments how your cheering squad, and you can't handle it. Take a sharpie and write....errr nevermind. Always saying "grow up, grow up", pfff, you sound like that girl in 7th grade who sat in the front -- really skinny, ugly, and who wore braces...and always telling people to grow up and be quiet. Oh yeah what was her name...Thelma? She is most likely a cranky librarian bossing everyone around, and telling the kids to stop running.

To be honest, I am actually at fault in all of this, why I would bother with an enemy the strength of a fruitfly baffles me. But hey it's just part of a rivalry, if you can't come back with something more clever, then move to the slow lane (exit lane, which would be the right lane in Portland ).

Like PortlandFan, this is my last post too, college time. See you all next season, Peace!!

Are you kidding me? LOl!
This is the f***ing internet, I couldn't care less what some trust fund hooligan from PortScum thinks about me or my club.

ECS will never grow as longs you have the elitist attitude!

How about not censonring chants by certain members of the ECS cause they are to agro or to hardcore.

how about not spreading out throughout the section so that it seems like theres more than 10 of you.

LOL at Portland being fickle about the team, theres people that have been around since 75 and people that havent missed a single game in 5 years. Every year the section gets bigger and it grows for many reasons.

Its funny how many people from the TA have tried to help the ECS with ideas and suggestions and all youve ever done is talk smack behind their back or posted their suggestions like they were your ideas.

I won't be satisfied until the ECS is JUST ME! Only me, I say! I AM ECS and no one else may enter! I am my own private club!

PS:
Another difference between ECS/TA:

We have a ratio of 1 Championship for about every 2-3 fans!

(3 Championships, 9 supporters)



Go Flounders!

being champs you have no excuse now for your support not to grow now

Y'all really don't like each other, do you?

being the modest fan i am, even i hear myself say sometimes "wow i really hate the seattle sounders, hate their guts", and i'm the most gentle person you will ever meet.

We'll think of something.

Theres has been many people from the Timbers Army that have tried to help out the ECS. Suggestions for growth, recruitment etc.

They took our suggestions and made them their own, without a thank you or credit.


Its unfortunate that the league champs have the worst supporters in the league!

We need to let this go.

Maybe I'm missing something here.. what does the Sounders winning the 2005 title have to do with the supporters groups?

The thread title is "Let us differentiate..."

Biggest difference: One supporters group has celebrated 3 titles, one has not. As stated earlier, that's ONE for every THREE of us!

And what exactly did you guys do to help the team win?

Certainly you did not create home field advantage for them (FSC Announcers said that multiple times) which is pretty much the main way supporters can help their teams on the pitch.

So apart from joining them at the pub for a drink out of the cup what role did you have at all in the championship?

Be proud of your lads but please don't act like the 9 of you had anything to do with it.

We had more to do with it than the supporters of any other club.

Our club won.


To wit:

"You guys are as much a part of this as we are!"

---Taylor Graham. outside of FX McRory's on the night of the Championship.


A nice thing to say. Of course he doesn't mean it literally, but in spirit. And that means a lot. We've been behind these guys all year on and off the pitch letting them know we care. Did our support make a difference? Of course it did. Did it win us the title? No. It just made celebrating the title all the more sweet. It was quite a night with the lads.

Seattle supporters tend to be a smaller, quieter bunch. I have noticed through Ron and others than the focus is "what matters is what happens on the pitch." So much is done "behind the scenes." Helping players get coaching jobs, getting gift certificates, awards, making business connections. Helping out in the Sounders front office. Buying the guys a beer after the match. Working with Kells to make sure the guys feel at home there. Setting up off-season get-togethers. Greeting the team bus before it leaves for Portland and Vancouver...connecting with parents and relatives of players who live around the country and sending them Sounders stuff...on and on it goes...None of which was apparent or made noise in the stands that wonderful October night. And most of which other supporters groups have also done. But our club won the title. And we supported them along the way to that title.

What happened on the pitch was a championship. What happened in the stands was a celebration of what our guys accomplished. ECS also accomplished a few nice things in 2005, so it all makes for a very memorable year for Seattle supporters.

Is it "our" title? (Seattle Supporters).

Yes. This roster will change. The players will come and go. The supporters will embroider stars and add to the history archives. It was 2005. We had a great team. WE won.

We could have done so much more in terms of noise and numbers. But for those who showed up and yelled when only 1,200 managed in the May rain against Atlanta...for those of us who were among the 600 to see the Open Cup match vs. Salinas Samba...the love and spirit and support were there, was strong. And we gave it our all in love for our Championship team. We tried to make up for lack of numbers with personal thank you's, presents and help to the boys. I know they appreciated it as we appreciate the fine season they gave us.

That's all fine and good but it still doesn't answer the basic question that Allison asked:

"What does the Sounders winning the 2005 title have to do with the supporters groups?"

You can use your actions described above as a way to "differentiate" between the two supporters but using the championship the team earned on the field is just whacked.

Some of the best supporters in the world win fvck all year after year, They still support their team and pour passion into creating a true home team advantage (giving a player a bannana does not motivate them no matter how nice they are about it). Pompey fans come to mind as one of many examples.

Think about it, the Timbers have been at best a top 6 team in it's 5 years in existence but the passion and support for our team has only grown not diminished because we gauge our sucess as supporters in terms of what we can do, not what the lads do on the pitch. Our goal is to support the team and ne the 12th man but we also work to improve things in our control and what happens on the field is not one of them.

Of course it doesn't mean we don't want a champtionship...

It is an accomplishment we can claim on behalf of our lads and celebrate as "our own" as we recall club history. "We" won. They are US. Those are our boys. They laced up their boots for the ECS because they have more talented legs than we do, and eat fewer donuts.

When Roger Levesque scored to beat Montreal, I scored to beat Montreal. When Scott Jenkins made his PK, ECS made the PK. When Preston Burpo won the MVP award, the ECS won the MVP award.

I know the TA will see it the same way one day, if they have the opportunity.

My allegories are purely emotional, as is most of my support. I make no appologies for losing logical perspective in the thrilling post-championship adrenaline wave.

But, I do see your point. The ECS is not "the supporting champions" of the USL-1. We are the supporters OF the USL-1 Champs. A group with much work to do, in point of fact.

some wanker said it is laughable that you think that this was copied from them. just goes to show you prats know nothing about supporting a football team. i was going to say, why don't you try to nick our flags our something, but then i remembered you have no balls and about 2 active members.

I don't understand why some of the TA have this weird complex about Seattle and this insane lust for aggro hooliganism. As much as you would like it to be, our cities are not bitter rivals whose populations hate each other. That is pure fantasy. I am sick of all this posturing that is taking place in order to create some kind of faux intensity that doesn't exist.

I love the sport, I love the players who give it their all for the Sounders, and I love Seattle. That's it. I do not hate Portland or Vancouver. In fact, I have deep affection for both of those cities and their people.

Can we PLEASE just drop this hyperbole crap already? I do not want to be a symbol for your neurotic hate issues.

- Paul

i don't hate seattle. just their "fans" (or lack of)

Because we don't care about stealing flags.

You can say what you want about balls yadda yadda, but your antagonism is not going to make us into hoolie opposition. We aren't interested.

Are you so bored with your life that you have to create enemies out of nothing? What is it that your life is lacking? Can you find a more positive outlet for attaining it? Why can't you just cheer on your team and be happy that you are part of a beautiful spectacle on gameday? Doesn't that invigorate your spirit enough?

- Paul

typical seattle. always trying to talk down to us. blah blah blah.

not sure if i agree with you their paul. i don't hate seattle or anything, but i am going to disagree with you on the part that seattle and portland aren't bitter rivals. i am not trying to blow things out of picture either...but they are rivals...

in just about every way.

maybe not a red sox-yankee rivalry, but you'd be surprised paul, it's bigger than you think.

bright,

why dont you preach your fans first! Antagonism goes both ways. Its just that people react to it differently!

Back on topic
ECS will never grow due to their elitist holier than thou attitude. We dont understand your attitude and you dont get ours. Period!

ECS has trouble growing because the majority of the fans that show up to Sounders games aren't interested in standing and singing. That isn't ECS's fault. When the team grows its attendance base, then ECS will be able to attain critical mass and start growing.

As far as all this differentiation crap, it is so Karl Rove-ian. You keep spewing statements about how we are different in your effort to stir the pot, and you expect people to just eat it up. I am sure some people who live outside our region who don't know any better just trust your statements and take them as truth, which is sad. But most of us know better.

All I personally ask is that you gain some perspective. I would prefer to see TA and ECS and Southsiders working together. I am sick of this theatrical rivalry that some of you seek to promote. It is a really negative tactic to pander to people's desire for aggro in order to build soccer fandom.

Does this make sense to you? Or are you going to continue to pretend like you are so "different" that you don't understand my attitude?

- Paul

I do understand your attitude and your perspective but you need to get off your high horse and start by asking the ECS the same thing. There was several efforts made by many people in the TA to work with the ECS and nothing came of it because of the attitude and actions of the ECS members, not all but some.

The Sounders have been around much longer than the Timbers and our numbers have grown to about 1000 people at home and about 200 for Seattle games.

Can you explain why your numbers dont grow?

Theres plenty of people that sit down and dont like or understand what the TA is but our numbers are growing with every game.

Are people that different in Seattle or is it the attitude of the supporters group?


You keep mentioned promoting aggro behavior, where in my post do you see that!

I have merely pointed the differences between the ECS and the TA.

I want to echo what crozzball said. There absolutely is an bitter rivalry between Portland and Seattle when it comes to soccer (as well as hockey and basketball). Although, I agree with you that the entire populations of the cities don't hate each other.

I assure you that there is an intensity that exists between our supporter groups. You seem to believe that it only goes one way, but I assure you it goes both ways. Is there another explanation as to why ECS would call me after midnight on the night Seattle won the title to join in a chorus of "Can you hear Portland sing"? It goes both ways.

And some people hate Seattle as a city just because that's where the Sounders reside. Might not make sense, but so what? And that goes both ways as well. You don't have to look very much on the Sounders message board to see Portland bashing. But again, so what?

I have family in Seattle and I STILL don't like that city. Crap traffic, no public transit system, cold and unappealing downtown and way to many yuppies or guppies or whatever the hell you call them.

So yes I don't like the Flounders and I don't liek the city of Seattle. It is everything we don't want to be here in Portland. Now Vancouver on the other hand...

Bright - may I respectfully point out this is a rivalries forum and rivalries are actually good for teams, attendance and the league in general. Passion. It's a good thing.

FInally - the Timbers attendance has remained relatively flat since their entry into the league in 2001. But the T.A. has grown by leaps and bounds? How is that? It has nothing to do with competition with other sports (a excuse you frequently use). It has nothing to do with the other 4000 fans at the game who generally sit on their hands.

Have you not figured out yet that we face the exact same obstacles that you do?

Not the "exact same," as the sporting bases of both cities is quite different. If PGE were the home of the "Portland Expos" and also the OSU Beavers, among others, then I'd be more willing to see the overall point.

Also Seattle does not embrace anything that doesn't feel like a "big event" when it comes to pro sports. Sometimes not even then (8,000 announced at USL-1 final).

What's the sports "hierarchy" in the Seattle area?

1. Mariners
2. Huskies athletics
3. Seahawks
4. Sonics
5. Tacoma Rainiers
6. Everett Silvertips
7. High School athletics
8. Storm
9. Thunderbirds
10. Everett Aqua Sox
11. Seattle U./Seattle Pacific Athletics
12. Sounders

(Guestimate based on attendance and overall media coverage.)

There was a time when Sounders soccer sold itself. This is a very different town now.

These are not excuses, just realities.

As far as growth goes, if I only could choose one...I'd rather see the ECS stay the same and overall attendance go up for Seattle...than the other way around.

I think 2006 is the year both can happen. Bigger ECS, better overall attendance for the Sounders. We'll know more next Monday when the venue, ticke tprices and events planned for 2006 are announced.

i hope you stay at the Tukwila place, Qwest sucks!
plus they should have a beer garden every game.

think of the children!

But my point is that the constant here is attendance.

Timbers attendance has remained about the same with a slight uptick and so has the Sounders since they moved out of Memorial.

So...why have the two supporters clubs grown at such different rates? It has nothing to do with the Mariners, Hawks etc - I am talking about recruitment among the loyal.

We have brought more and more people into the idea that participating in the game via a supporters section is a) a hell of alot more fun and b) it helps the team.

Every match people wander over to " see what we are about".

Why has that not happened in Seattle? You can look to excuses or you can look at yourselves and the dirty secret is that you are happy with keeping things small if you are honest about it.

I don't want to be "big" in the same anti-establishment way you guys are big. But we both know that working with Qwest Field has its challenges. Not just the security, but also the fact that Section 113 is at the far end and recruiting isn't made any easier by the fact people don't see us /pass by us on the way in. Starfire has an advantage that way.

It would be fun if "The Bird's Nest" endzone was open to us. Then we could not only "take over" that area, but all other fans in the stands could see and hear us better. That would help in-stadium recruiting.

As it is, ECS has set up a table for info, and the scarves have been quite popular.

I would love the group to get much larger...more hits for the website that I slave over, after all.

The "social flavor" that surrounds both the Timbers and the Sounders is quite different. We have a subdued but loyal GM and ownership group that fields a team but adds no match-day frills. Even without the TA PGE would still have more atmosphere on match day than Qwest does now. It's a large place for a poorly supported team.

It makes more sense to compare the ECS to places like Toronto and Minnesota...perhaps Richmond...where attendance is around 3,000 per match. Of those three I'd say a good goal for ECS would be to become as big as the Dark Clouds are...based on some good photos I saw last year.

However, my "recruitment efforts" are almost purely internet-based, as I live 60+ miles from Seattle. My community, on the Olympic Peninsula, does have more than a few ECSers, though.



Look at the cover of SC.com! It looks pretty ECS-driven to me! My timing may suck (off-season) but we've done stuff like this in the past. Alas, not very many foot-soldiers who actually live in SEA. So there we have it. The "truth" is somewhere in the middle: we want a bigger supporters group, but haven't been able to put it all together up here yet. But no reason not to still enjoy the process and what we have going for us "as is."

It's great knowing everyone in the ECS by name. But I can remember LOTS more names if need be. I work in education (with hundreds of kids), afterall.

don't get me wrong, i hate the sounders, i mean c'mon i live in portland duh! but i do want to IT least see them do well in terms of bringing enough fans in, and seeing a decent supporters group.

sc-1, are you guys recruiting hard enough? i mean gosh, it just amazes me in a city with 3.5 million metro, you can't find soccer fans.

We know EXACTLY where they are:

1. Pubs like George & the Dragon.
2. With their kids at soccer tournaments.
3. Playing in the GSSL (biggest in country per capita). http://www.gssl.org
4. Playing on youth teams.

You'd be more likey to find ECS flyers at the pubs/GSSL than you would Sounders info. Still, when we recruit out of the many soccer pubs, filled with EPL fans...we get blown off as supporting 3rd or 4th-class footy.

I've personally talk with scores of guys who LOVE the sport and refuse to go to a Sounders match until we get MLS.

"When are we going to get MLS" is the single-most asked question of both ECSers and the Sounders front office.

"I'll buy season tickets and stand with you guys when we are MLS" is the #1 response.

Seattle's recent soccer support is mixed:

67,000 in 2003 for Man U v. Celtic.
32,00 in 2004 for Chelsea v. Celtic
1,200 in 2005 for Real Salt Lake v. Sounders
8,500 in 2005 for Sunderland v. Sounders
16,000 in 2005 for USA v. Canada/Cuba in Gold Cup.

Yet the stats say that more people are involved with soccer per capita in the greater Seattle area than anywhere else in the country.

We know exactly where they are...but...

the Europhiles are "above us" and the soccer mom won't let her kids join "that group of hooligans who promote unsportsmanlike behavior" (true quote.)

It doesn't matter if you have LOTS of people around...if no one wants to come.

And, obviously so far we have been unable to convince any large number of fans to both come to matches and stand as supporters.

My perception could be way off, but it seems to me that quite a few 18-25 year-old types think its cool to stand with and be a part of the TA. That's a "demographic" that just aint flying for the Sounders right now. And one the ECS really needs for vitality, noise, and growth.

Last year we offered free tickets & beer to college students at the UW as incentive to try out the ECS. It worked for a match, but none of them came back for more. We'll probably try it again in '06.

I would actually peg our average age closer to the 25-30 range. We got some young-ins but most are post-college 20 something types with disposable income (very key component).

Look -I learned early on to forget about 1)Euro-Snobs 2)People who play soccer locally and 3) Soccer Parents. They all present reasons to NOT go and become a supporter.

There are probably a million folks in Seattle who represent the demographic I described above. They don't know MLS from PDL. Trust me on this - but the ARE looking for something, real, original and genuine in a Starbucks world.

Go to where they are. Forget Kells - go to a pub where they hang out and ask to turn the tv to a foot match. Badger the hell out of your local alt-weekly to do a piece on you. Do some weird off-season get together with discount beer.

Our succes has been driven by people joining us because it is FUN. You may think you are having fun, and you are, but step back and look at it from an outsiders perspective. How friendly are you really? Are you overly-friendly so you come across as the juggling club? Get some of your younger members to do the prime recruiting.

Etc etc etc

A lot of the Seattle alt-types in that age range are pretty plugged in politically, and the vast majority do not appreciate the existance of Qwest Field and how it relates (even tangentially) to the demise and gentrification of Pioneer Square (and even Belltown, if only symbolically). In a lot of ways, Qwest Field is perceived to be an extension of the Eastside.

Also, there is the sticky notion of what "civic pride" really is. Right now, pride in mainstream institutions like sports teams means pride in big city politics, developers, gentrification, and Greg Nickels (and Paul Schell before him). This isn't something that the alt-types like to align themselves with.

The vibrant artsy underground is seen as a more legitimate focus of civic pride. And the alt-types prefer to use their disposable income to fund and create this artsy underground rather than sit in a publically-blackmailed sports stadium and get drunk on $7 watered-down beer.

I am personally in the alt-type camp myself, but I have soccer in my blood, and my blood is thick. I can see both sides of the coin, but I don't know how to portray the Qwestified Sounders in a way that would appeal to the alt-community. Maybe if we were still at Memorial.

- Paul

Here is an idea that may work to draw in more creative artsy types, but it would take cooperation among the "rival" supporters groups.

I think the TA succeeds because you have a civic ideal to rally around. The people of Portland believe in the city of Portland. We do not have that here in Seattle. Right now, there is stratification between the "people" and the developers.

However, there is a civic ideal that Seattleites, particularly the young artsy alt-crowd, have been rallying around lately, and that is the ideal of Cascadia. If coming to support the Sounders somehow meant supporting Cascadia, then I think we could get more people out to games and be vocal in the stands.

The cooperative element would be to have Sounders and Timbers supporters showing unity for Cascadia rather than trying to foment fake rivalry. In my time in the music scene, Portland and Seattle artsits have always worked together. They don't see the cities as aligned against each other. That is just arbitrary crap. Antagonistic chants at a soccer game would be seen as banal and immature and a big turnoff. That isn't something they are insterested in as it is negative, not positive. Artists want to create, not negate. Is it possible to have smart intelligent and politically-aware support at our games? That is sincere and meaningful, and more than just calling each other names for no real good reason?

- Paul

Man, oh Man, who has a misplaced sense of self importance?

What did the Sounders fans do to Win the Championship? If this is a valid arguement what then did the Timbers fans have to do with Portlands Defeat?

A fan is there to support her/or her team, through thick or thin and no amount of argument will change any of that. It reminds me of Rangers & Celtic. Celtic (the other team in the hoops of Green) seems to have louder fans too -- and they loose to the boys in blue more often and all. PMSL.

I will say this though, the Portland Fans are more willing to travel further than any other USL-1 team's fans to watch them get a leathering.

I noticed that the Portland fans liked to call the ECS a bunch of fat bald b***ards, well if that be the case, I will have to shave my hair and gain a few pounds before next season, you shower of whingers.

Aye and btw, Alvarez should have his jersey changed to say "Submarine" on the back 'cause he dives more than Captain Nemo.

George Best: "I spent a lot of my money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered."

Byron is a rank amateur diver compared to a few of the Sounders forwards. Galindo could win a gold in the competition.

To Quote yerself Allison:

That's one of the weakest attempts at talking smack I have ever seen. Candidate for the hall of shame, I think.

'We lost because we didn't win.' - Ronaldo

If you're going to talk smack, at least learn how to spell...

Now wait a minute, I knew that this rivalry was tough, but attacking another poster's spelling, well that's just wrong!

Things could get out of hand, imagine, impromptu spelling bees at Derby matches, lmao

I'm with Paul on this one.

I think that some of the actions/reactions by some of the TA/UC, and some of the actions/reactions by some of the ECS members, do quite a bit to drive people away.

Not many people I know want to deal with jr. high drama...

BEER BELLED FLOUNDER FOR DINNER!!!!!!

DONUTS FOR DESSERT.

I rest my case....

Bumping this for old times sake!!!