USL/NASL Discussions USLSoccer.com :: USLFans.com :: TheCup.us :: NASL.com | Links | Link to US !
Article Posting Guidelines are spelled out here. Thanks
Announcement: After 15 years of life, these boards have dwindled to a place for a mere handful of folks to post links and have the rare discussion. Having born the financial burden for both the hosting and the software for that same 15 year period, and just not having the time anymore for this effort, I have decided to shutdown these boards at the end of the USL & NASL season later this Fall. It has truly been a blast to have been part of growing a nation-wide fanbase thru internet interaction, that in 1999 was slim or non-existent for the Lower Divisions of Soccer. That has all changed and for the better. Fan support around the country is nothing like what it was when I started this, so from that perspective, I feel I accomplished my small part in contributing to growing that connection into what it is today. Thanks for everyone's support over the years, and especially for all the friendships across the country that Vicki and I have so enjoyed (and still do) over the years. Thanks !! Dan Barnes
Who's Online
0 registered (), 17 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Top Posters (30 Days)
Msilverstein47 82
Pghsoccer 25
futbol49 11
Mikeyratt 11
Yankiboy 5
Forum Stats
7278 Members
134 Forums
28287 Topics
297776 Posts

Max Online: 152 @ 09/20/13 11:24 PM
Page 4 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >
Topic Options
#276810 - 12/14/11 11:00 AM Re: Stop trying to copy Barcelona! [Re: jw7]
jw7 Offline
Hall Of Famer

Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 5293
http://msn.foxsports.com/foxsoccer/story...rom-past-080811

Naturally it wasn’t a big surprise then that there were great expectations surrounding Thomas Di Benedetto when the businessman from Boston agreed to buy Roma this summer.

As one columnist noted, there have been few stars and stripes since his arrival in the Eternal City, more a Homage to Catalonia with the appointment of Barcelona B coach Luis Enrique catching the locals, who were expecting Carlo Ancelotti, completely unawares.

“There is a lot of apprehension,” wrote Sergio Rizzo in an editorial for Il Corriere dello Sport. “Hopes and fears mix. There is great anxiety. The question marks are many, perhaps too many, but that’s what the club wanted. Roma have taken an innovative path with unpredictable choices, often giving the impression that they want to surprise everyone at all costs. The choice of Luis Enrique is a gamble not a bet.”

“The reason why we chose Enrique is symbolic,” explained Roma’s director of sport Walter Sabatini. “He represents discontinuity. Enrique represents an idea of football that we would like to follow, which imposes itself today through Spain and Barcelona, a kind of football, which is a little baroque but very effective. Enrique constitutes an absolute novelty, a courageous and provocative decision that I would make again.”

“When Roma got to know me, they got to know me as an offensive coach who likes to attack, who likes good football,” Enrique revealed. “The important thing is that the fans come to watch us, that they enjoy themselves. It’s a very attractive way of playing. We will play on the attack. I don’t consider football any other way. We are moving towards a complete change of ideas and identity.”

I haven’t come here to bring the Barcelona model, but something that is similar to it. The model that Barcelona have used has taken many years to realise. I am coming here to bring a model by association, which takes things from Barcelona, but isn’t equal to it, also because it all depends on the players that you have and from the qualities that they have.”

Those spectators in Riscone di Brunico with an intimate knowledge of Barcelona’s techniques will have recognised the piggy-in-the-middle-like rondo to develop pressing and the torrello passing patterns.

“It’s certainly a different methodology, a different approach to games with respect to the Italian championship,” noted Simone Perrotta. “In Italy we are used to being direct with a long ball straight from the defender to the attacker. Enrique is looking to be direct through a different method by going from one half of the pitch to the other as quickly as possible through possession and keeping the ball on the floor.”

Curious to observe Roma’s new methods, Arrigo Sacchi, the great iconoclast of Italian football, paid Enrique a visit. “I greeted him by saying: ‘Welcome to Hell’ because here it’s not easy to make inroads. We are afraid of new things when we really shouldn’t be.”

When placed in this context, Enrique, with his sunglasses and iPad, resembles Sacchi just as much as Guardiola. Milan gambled on him in 1987, believing that Italian clubs could lift major trophies without catenaccio and that if they were to go down in history, winning was not enough, they had to convince too.

“The system and the methods proposed by the mister are new, interesting and above all very stimulating,” Francesco Totti wrote on his blog.

“We are only at the beginning: day by day we’ll have the chance to enter into this new reality.”

Top
#276811 - 12/14/11 11:33 AM Re: Stop trying to copy Barcelona! [Re: jw7]
jw7 Offline
Hall Of Famer

Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 5293
http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/12/14/luis-enrique-roma-tactics-barcelona/

How effectively is Luis Enrique implementing the Barcelona methods at Roma?


This is quite a transformation. Immediately there were inevitable comparisons drawn with Barcelona. So, 14 games in and 10th out of 20 in the Serie A table, how effectively is he imposing the Barcelona methods? Here is a consideration of ten key Barcelona-esque factors.

Possession and ball-playing midfielders: 8-10
(Read more)

Penetration 3-10

Movement: 3-10

Pressing: 5-10

Defenders comfortable on the ball: 8-10

Attacking full-backs: 7-10

The Busquets role: 8-10

Wide forwards: 6-10

The Messi role: 6-10

Youth products: 8-10

Conclusion

The obvious cliche – Rome wasn’t built in a day. Enrique’s project is widespread and long-term, and though tenth in the league cannot be regarded as a success at this stage, the project is shaping up nicely.

“We should stop trying to make comparisons with Barcelona,” says General Manager Franco Baldini. “We’re trying to create a team that works with possession, but other sides do that too. We’ll refer to Barcelona when we have quality.”

Even when dissuading Barcelona comparisons, he still sees Barcelona as the target. There’s a long way to go, but it’s worth Roma and the fans getting behind Enrique.


...former Barcelona B coach Luis Enrique taking over at Roma.
...........................................................................................................................
*This is not a simple system to implement quickly, even the second team coach at Barca who trained with the Barca first team has had his problems training it to a top level team.

-Quick possession based ball movements and the resulting penetration opportunities that creates is the whole systems point and the primary method of the attacking system...?

Think of a game of basketball where the attacking team has the ball in your defensive zone at the top of the circle and has clean possession but can't get inside to take the high percentage shot! Is that really a more entertaining game to watch? Is it really a more attacking game?

Basketball is about a defensive system first
Hockey is about a defensive system first
Goals/points are scored when the defensive system fails...

Great attackers take advantage of defensive system failures, they are born (not trained) to do that... Barca has the perfect combinations of the best players for their defensive system and some of the games best attackers! That is their big secrete... Spending big money on the players that fit into their system the best!

Now go train that!


Top
#276814 - 12/14/11 11:52 AM Re: Stop trying to copy Barcelona! [Re: jw7]
jw7 Offline
Hall Of Famer

Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 5293
Let the other teams try to play like Barcelona then when they make a defending mistake:





Which type of attackers do we have in the US. Who have we developed so far?

I would prefer to win something big first with our national team, then talk about style of play in a decade or two when we're ready for that style...

Top
#278077 - 02/17/12 07:10 PM Re: Stop trying to copy Barcelona! [Re: Soccer Boy]
jw7 Offline
Hall Of Famer

Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 5293
The most studied tactical puzzel of the last few years is Barcelona's style of play and why it works so well for them.

Controlling the tempo of play and using their energy wisely over 90 minutes and more importantly over the course of the long soccer season.

1. They employ the concept of high pressure defending with the forwards working hard when they lose possession. This gives the defenders time to get organized in their own half. They then want to out numbering the other team near the ball quickly to regain possession as far up field as possible. Many teams do not use more than two players to do this as the rest drop off. Many teams use this as a time to catch a short rest. Barca does not rest while defending, all 10 players defend and will drop back quickly as needed when they do not have possession.

If they regain possession in the attacking half they go to goal quickly. This is all very high energy work and the players must find time to rest. High energy work cannot happen for 90 minutes in every game if you want to win a lot of games over a long season. The slower tempo play for Barca is when they are in possession in the defending and middle thirds.

So, to control the tempo and get some lower work rate time (rest) the attack is very possession based and it most of the time it involves controlling the speed of moving the players back up the field once they regain possession. More times then not, over the course of a long season they play back and play safe into possession space first before starting to attack. They are all very good at reading the other teams shape and will counter if that play is on. Most of the time in the game of soccer the counter play is not on.

The ball goes back to the defenders, they knock it around for a bit while the attackers move forward in a medium energy mode. The ball is played to the midfield players who are skilled at holding the ball and making safe passes to not lose possession. That is the key they don't play ping pong back and forth for 90 minutes.

2. They take chances going forward but only when a play is on, they don't want to force a play too early. Messi's best play is the simple give and go to get behind starting from just outside the box.

If the play forward in not on they maintain possession in the middle third with precise passing skills in tight spaces. The midfield players do not spread all across the field. That wide space is taken up by the fullbacks but many times even when the fullbacks are open out wide they don't play to them as choice #1. The choices to maintain possession and less on the outside of the field near the line.

3. They have great passing skills but more important they have great support movements around the ball and always have more than one option to maintain possession safely when in the middle third.

They stay close in as a midfield group to provide great support to the player on the ball. Medium length passing is the safest type of pass and it creates the best possession percentages. Watch the spacing and amount of support movement they create by not attacking when the whole team is not prepared to move forward as a unit. (* they do use the counter when it is on)

4. The attack starts at the entrance to the box area when the scoring players are forward and ready to make runs into space.

As all this slower possession happens in the midfield the forwards are now forward, rested and near the entrance to the attacking third. Full of energy, they have the time to watch the defenders movements, and are ready to exploit the space that develops as defenders more in relation to the ball movement. They make runs into space and create combinations plays to penetrate through the central part of the field. Combinations play take time to set up and create and the players have the time to use changes of speed type of plays. The combinations plays work best from the area where it is the most difficult to defend, the center of the field. The same area where the best shooting angles come from.

They play like cats in attack and like dogs when they defend.


http://msn.foxsports.com/foxsoccer/lalig...fe-after-021612

Xavi Hernández has been at the heart of it all. The playmaker's control of the tempo of games - his management of the shape of his side – serves as the stable platform which allows Lionel Messi to wreak havoc up front...


Cesc Fabregas
“Further forward you have more freedom of movement, you feel freer and can play quicker,” he said. “I always want to get forward, as I was used to at Arsenal, where the football is more 'nervous'. Playing as an interior, by contrast, means you have to be more disciplined, to keep your position, and sometimes I lack the patience of Busquets and Xavi. It is not easy. You have to learn the movements within the ‘software’ that the coach has created"...



Guardiola said his side were allowing a “random factor” into games which in other seasons they had controlled.

“We have a problem,” the Catalan coach said. “We have dominated games for a lot of years. In the past the random factor did not figure into our play. We did not give it any room. We must return to that level and not let randomness feature in our games. We have to control it by playing better.”

Top
#278105 - 02/19/12 03:21 PM Re: Stop trying to copy Barcelona! [Re: Soccer Boy]
jw7 Offline
Hall Of Famer

Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 5293
The team is amazing, today they played a high paced go forward game vs Valencia and won 5-1. Many attacks went to the outside and up using Alexis Sanchez and Perdo.

Messi got 4 goals off counters...


http://www.fcbarcelona.com/football/firs...-out-of-nothing

Guardiola was asked about the dangers posed on Valencia's left wing by the pairing of Mathieu and Jordi Alba and admitted: "They attacked well there". However, he stressed that Valencia are not a one trick team: "It's true that they create a lot of chances down that wing but we'll try and do what we always do. We'll play our possession game".

??

Top
#278183 - 02/21/12 06:20 PM Re: Stop trying to copy Barcelona! [Re: Soccer Boy]
jw7 Offline
Hall Of Famer

Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 5293

Top
#278247 - 02/24/12 11:01 AM Re: Stop trying to copy Barcelona! [Re: jw7]
jw7 Offline
Hall Of Famer

Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 5293
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/feb/23/champions-league-five-things

What has happened to the art of defending?

It is churlish to be too critical, not when the public are treated to boisterous entertainment of the kind served up in Stadio San Paolo or St Jakob-Park, but the round of 16 has served up some spectacularly slapdash defending. If they are forced to review their games in advance of the second legs, certain players whose job it is to prevent goals may just feel like leaving the video room. In no particular order (OK, maybe one deserves to lead the pack) Arsenal, Zenit, Benfica, Napoli, Chelsea, Basel and Bayern Munich did not cover themselves with defensive glory. Even Internazionale betrayed their massed experience by switching off for a set play in stoppage time to concede an advantage to Marseille, while Real Madrid were criticised for sloppy marking in allowing CSKA Moscow to grab a late equaliser.

At half-time in the compelling attack-fest between Basel and Bayern, mystifyingly locked at 0-0 despite the flurry of chances at both ends, Ray Wilkins sniggered that we would not be seeing either of these teams in the final because of their defending. Perhaps we won't. But if we are relying on a defensive masterclass for pointers of who may end up with the trophy, we are still none the wiser.

Top
#278248 - 02/24/12 11:10 AM Re: Stop trying to copy Barcelona! [Re: jw7]
jw7 Offline
Hall Of Famer

Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 5293
Is Barcelona bad at defending, or do we just value and like talking about their attacking more?

Has the style of defending changed from drop off and organize defending by taking away space as a unit of players staying compact in a smaller part of the field, or are we just watching some teams and the real limitations of their attempt at high pressure defending with out a complete game plan behind it?

What role does controlling the tempo of play have in high pressure defending, and in which phase of play would you then do that?

Top
#278306 - 02/27/12 06:46 PM Re: Stop trying to copy Barcelona! [Re: jw7]
Soccer Boy Offline
Hall Of Famer

Registered: 04/21/10
Posts: 3621
Loc: Negril, Jamaica
So I am making phone calls for my son's U8 spring indoor team tonight. I get the first person on the phone and he starts quizzing me on my "soccer background." After about 5 minutes, he says, "So are you going to play a 4-4-2 this season?" I was really annoyed, but in my calm voice said, "No, I think we will be playing 4-3-3, but I am going to expect a lot out of my midfield and you son better be the next Messi or it will be a long season."
_________________________
--Soccer Boy

"If you're in the penalty area and don't know what to do with the ball, put it in the net and we'll discuss the options later." Bob Paisley, former Liverpool manager

#TradeNickRogers

Top
#278352 - 02/28/12 10:02 PM Re: Stop trying to copy Barcelona! [Re: Soccer Boy]
jw7 Offline
Hall Of Famer

Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 5293
"There is not enough scoring in the game of soccer!"
vs
"Defending well is what makes the game of soccer so great"!

It's why most americans who have never played the game at a high level will never fully understand the game we watch and why we try to understand the tactics of that one game.

-Super Bowl XLVI (2012) ended with a score of...
3.0 - 2.4

-A game of chess always ends 1-0...

Sloppy but quick and "full of action" has never been revered by anybody in the long run.
...........................................................................................................................

Zonal Marking by Michael Cox
http://www.zonalmarking.net/2012/02/28/l...lubs/#more-8292

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/feb/27/defending-tottenham-hotspur-arsenal

The top Premier League sides are losing their discipline and ability to compete in Europe, as demonstrated by this season's high-scoring matches

In Spain, barely any sides attempt to dominate possession against Real Madrid or Barcelona, and even Real know their place against Pep Guardiola's side. In Italy the game is played at a much slower tempo, and in Germany games between the bigger sides are generally tense, tactical and with counterattacking a key factor.

...despite Arsenal eventually winning the game comfortably, their early problems surely could have been avoided with a little more caution.

Arsenal didn't have a spare man in defence – but still pushed both full-backs high up the pitch, and left two against two at the back. They constantly looked uneasy when they lost the ball, when simply dropping Song or one of the full-backs deeper would have provided some cover.

Control, an intangible quality that is impossible to measure, is the hallmark of every great side.

... the best sides look comfortable when in the lead, rarely threatened and able to conserve energy ahead of their next fixture.

It is this lack of control that is costing English teams in Europe. With a fluid Barcelona side the template for continental success, it's an inconvenient truth that English clubs perform better in Europe when they are defensive, organised and functional.

Those used to a more patient approach are better equipped. Milan are not four goals better than Arsenal in terms of raw quality, but they had a clearer gameplan and knew how to attack Arsenal. Similarly, Chelsea's willingness to leave spaces for Napoli to counterattack into was bizarre. These matches sum up the lack of adaptability, the lack of control.





= English clubs were doing better in Europe when the rate of goals in the league was very low.


"We want to play attacking soccer for our fans."
vs
"We want to win games for our fans and also create a history for our club."

Top
Page 4 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >


Moderator:  Leo'o 
USL Discussions Chatter
Toronto Team MVP
by Msilverstein47
Yesterday at 08:03 PM
Caps/Cosmos battle for player
by Msilverstein47
Yesterday at 08:41 AM
crime never pays
by Msilverstein47
08/18/14 08:39 AM
2013 current attendance as of 5/6
by Msilverstein47
08/17/14 03:45 PM
and folks think that the USSF is bad???
by Msilverstein47
08/17/14 12:02 PM
an amazing goal...maybe NASL goal of the year?
by Msilverstein47
08/17/14 09:00 AM
Hammerheads on the Move...
by Msilverstein47
08/16/14 05:39 AM
Indy names Asst Coach
by Msilverstein47
08/15/14 01:43 PM
Minnesota United Roster Moves 2014
by Msilverstein47
08/15/14 12:02 PM
all praise the Commish
by Msilverstein47
08/15/14 09:38 AM