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#274422 - 08/31/11 02:00 AM Stop trying to copy Barcelona!
jw7 Offline
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Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 4779
Everybody now wants to play/attack just like Barcelona does.

Three attackers, and pushing both of the fullback way up high into attack on the flanks, combined with using high pressure defending in numbers in their half of the field... Really? And how long have you been training that system to your players? A few weeks, and you expect the same results?

The 433/451 high pressure tactic and the same numbers forward ideas are now used by many teams and were the root of many defending problems (high scoring, lopsided games) this past weekend. smirk

Only one problem: Barcelona has the best attacking players in the world, with some of the highest pass completion rates and they don't make very many poor passes and give up the ball in the middle third. When they do lose the ball they have some of the best 1v1 players in the world and don't get burned often while defending. They also realize the risk they are taking and recover very quickly into their starting position while at the same time delaying the attack with good pressure. They simply do everything right, few other teams can say that!

They played this weekend against Villarreal using only three/(one real) defenders because of injuries and still won 5-0.

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/08/29/barcelona-5-0-villarreal-tactics/

Don't use tactics from the best team in the world unless you also have the best group of players in the world because their tactics just might not work for your players...

Even US Soccer (the new curriculum by Claudio Reyna) is now telling everyone to play in a 433 and use the same tactics as Barcelona.

"Why would you not use the same system as the best team in the world" - A USSF coaching course instructor a few weeks ago...

Because we're not Barcelona (and may never be)! And there are technical implications to using tactics just as you list in your own coaching course manuals...

-Defend first and execute on the attacking chances all teams will get in every 90+ minute game. Keep your team in the game until the end and let them win by not giving up poorly defended goals early in the game.

Remember one thing, Barcelona got beat clearly by Inter Milan in the Champions league semi final in 2010 by doing just that, defending well!


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#274427 - 08/31/11 08:32 AM Re: Stop trying to copy Barcelona! [Re: jw7]
Soccer Boy Offline
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Registered: 04/21/10
Posts: 3082
Loc: Negril, Jamaica
It is funny that you posted this because I recently watched a HS match where the team was trying to play a 433, and was looking really bad. They later switched to a 442, and found more success.
_________________________
--Soccer Boy

"If you're in the penalty area and don't know what to do with the ball, put it in the net and we'll discuss the options later." Bob Paisley, former Liverpool manager

#TakeBackTheCup

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#274502 - 09/03/11 08:11 AM Re: Stop trying to copy Barcelona! [Re: Soccer Boy]
jw7 Offline
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Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 4779
Yep, that was not good, not good at all Klinsy/US Soccer. I expected a little more, sorry... whistle

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#274503 - 09/03/11 08:18 AM Re: Stop trying to copy Barcelona! [Re: jw7]
jw7 Offline
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Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 4779
451 defending in numbers that morphs into a 433 while in the attacking 1/3!

A central triangel that shifts roles by the 1/3s, two defending when in the def 1/3 (base low), two attacking when in the att 1/3 (base high), staggered in the mid 1/3 to create the triangle (base sideways).

The other number shift happens out on the wings who play the whole length of the field from box to box (find those players capable of that work rate), give them a rest during the attacks that are not counters by slowing the play down and giving them time to get forward.

Counter attack from a deep start when the play is on. Take your time in transiting forward when the counter is not on, give all the players a chance to rest while under possession of the ball in the middle 1/3 by keeping possession while playing around the back (we only need good quality attacks performed with quality energy levels). Move forward when space is there and the percentage is high to maintain possession. Attack into the att1/3 using combination plays (executed quickly and with precision) to penetrate behind. Find the player at the top of the box in the center of the field and finish on the full width of the goal.


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#274507 - 09/03/11 05:40 PM Re: Stop trying to copy Barcelona! [Re: jw7]
Soccer Boy Offline
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Registered: 04/21/10
Posts: 3082
Loc: Negril, Jamaica
I am glad I went to bed early last night and wasted no more than 20 minutes of my life on the USMNT. Altidore remains a lazy bum in my book and should be forever bannished from wearing a jersey representing the US. In fact, I think the lad would have a hard time scoring goals in the NASL.

I will remain patient with the new coach, but my patience is wearing thin...
_________________________
--Soccer Boy

"If you're in the penalty area and don't know what to do with the ball, put it in the net and we'll discuss the options later." Bob Paisley, former Liverpool manager

#TakeBackTheCup

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#274547 - 09/04/11 11:15 PM Re: Stop trying to copy Barcelona! [Re: Soccer Boy]
jw7 Offline
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Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 4779




Bump

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#274568 - 09/05/11 08:15 PM Re: Stop trying to copy Barcelona! [Re: jw7]
Leitbringer Offline
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Registered: 09/03/11
Posts: 68
Loc: Brooklyn Park, MN
I would like to see more 451. That way you can control the ball in the midfield and receive support from the defense whilst wait for an opportunity to attack. Also diamond formation in the midfield can give 5 player on defense and 5 on attack, really 3 and two support players.
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#274590 - 09/06/11 02:47 PM Re: Stop trying to copy Barcelona! [Re: Leitbringer]
jw7 Offline
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Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 4779
The #28 ranked FIFA team (USA) 0, the #37 ranked team (Belgium) 1.
I will wait and see as everybody has asked, but I did expect more right out of the gate for the US.

What is important is what happens next June in the World Cup Q matches. I really hope they do better than our MNT U20s did...


Edited by jw7 (09/06/11 02:50 PM)

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#274700 - 09/10/11 12:50 PM Re: Stop trying to copy Barcelona! [Re: jw7]
jw7 Offline
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Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 4779
Barcelona up by 2 at the half against the #15 place La Liga team from last year, gives up two quick goals against Real Sociedad and the game ended 2-2.


"Safe to say nobody expected that result. A great result for Real Sociedad, for Real Madrid, for neutrals as well. But not for Barcelona, who should have had this wrapped up by half-time. Questions will be asked of the defence following this display" -Ben Hayward Goal.com

See what happens when the second best group of players in the world tries to do what the best group can do every game: Not make any technical or tactical mistakes all game long...

Messi, Iniesta, and Mascherano were all on the bench while this happened.

Maybe all attack and numbers down/even in the back is not the way to go after all for good but not great teams. whistle

"Crazy. We're in round two of La Liga but with Barca and Real Madrid so superior, a result like this could have serious consequences on Barca's title hopes. I know, I know - it's ridiculous. Round two"! -Ben hayward

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#274703 - 09/10/11 01:54 PM Re: Stop trying to copy Barcelona! [Re: jw7]
Soccer Boy Offline
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Registered: 04/21/10
Posts: 3082
Loc: Negril, Jamaica
I watched another HS team trying to play 433 recently. It seems to me that 433 is the new 442. When watching this team, it was clear to me that the coach, and more importantly the players (outside wingers) failed to understand what their role was when the team was attacking and what to do after the team lost the ball.

I was also frustrated by the play of the outside backs. There were opportunities for them to become involved in the play that even my half-blind 93 year-old grandmother could have seen.

In sum, I want to learn more about systems of play in 11 v. 11 soccer. However, it is hard for me to get a chance to see some teams (and coaches) who understand the 443 to play it live. (I hate watching soccer on team because I cannot see the whole field.)
_________________________
--Soccer Boy

"If you're in the penalty area and don't know what to do with the ball, put it in the net and we'll discuss the options later." Bob Paisley, former Liverpool manager

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