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#274707 - 09/10/11 03:43 PM Re: Stop trying to copy Barcelona! [Re: Soccer Boy]
Leitbringer Offline
Novice

Registered: 09/03/11
Posts: 68
Loc: Brooklyn Park, MN
I fully believe in the 3-5-2. Its better than having an attacking back, which fully believe in. I.E. Inter Milan in the Champions league in 2010.

Having the 5 mids in diamond formation gives the ultimate ability too attack with 5 and defend with 5.

It might actually look like a 3-1-3-1-2. Having an attacking mid and a defensive mid gives you an amazing ability to control the field.

For instance SSC Napoli, watch them this year control the field.

My theory is control the midfield and you will control the game.
_________________________
"When you are 4-0 up you should never lose 7-1" - Lawrie McMenemy

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#274714 - 09/11/11 12:27 AM Re: Stop trying to copy Barcelona! [Re: Leitbringer]
jw7 Offline
Hall Of Famer

Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 4752
The five mids play in a central triangle with two wingers in a 352. The triangel rotates depending on what third they are in and who has the ball.

The base of the triangle (6,8,10) is back when you are without the ball in your own def 1/3, 451.

.......2..........4...........5...........3.......
.......7..........6...........8.........11.......
.
..........B.........10..............................
.
..................9...................................

The base becomes sideways (6,8,10) and is staggered on the strong side when you regain possession and are playing with build up moving through the mid 1/3, 41311

.................4.............5.................
.....2................................3...........
..................6.................................
7............................8.................11
................B10..............................
.....................................9.............

When you get the ball into the att 1/3 the triangle (6,8,10) rotates forward and you now have a 433.
..............4..............5.................
....................6...............3..........
.2...............................................
............10...........8....................
....................................11........
..7B..................9......................

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#274718 - 09/11/11 10:35 AM Re: Stop trying to copy Barcelona! [Re: jw7]
Leitbringer Offline
Novice

Registered: 09/03/11
Posts: 68
Loc: Brooklyn Park, MN
Now that everything has been dissected, I think we can all agree. That we do not want to be Barcelona.
_________________________
"When you are 4-0 up you should never lose 7-1" - Lawrie McMenemy

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#274719 - 09/11/11 11:12 AM Re: Stop trying to copy Barcelona! [Re: Leitbringer]
jw7 Offline
Hall Of Famer

Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 4752
Don't misunderstand me I think they are a great team. I just don't think we can afford to be Barcelona and I think people are making a mistake trying to copy a system that is based on having the best players in the world, ones that don't make mistakes.

There is a difference between being a idealist and a realist as a coach. I want my payers to take risk, I also want a system that has safety built in so when they do try something risky we have redundant systems in place so that the risk taking does not then cost us the game, the season, and all of our hopes.

A coach is there to organize a team into a system and make them stronger than they really are 1v1. You want to make your players look good and build confidence by having a system that has a lot of cover build in, and good defensive starting positions. You want a system that allows them to play strong for the full 90 minutes. Not a system that highlights their mistakes in the open field all alone 40 yards from goal in the 80 minute. That erodes team confidence and creates players who resort to blame to escape the pressures of a long hard season.

One mistake in one 5 second moment of a 90 minute game should not be that important. The system should not allow one mistake to end your hopes.

Coaches need to be a little more realistic about who they are coaching, and who they are watching on TV. whistle

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#274720 - 09/11/11 11:54 AM Re: Stop trying to copy Barcelona! [Re: jw7]
jw7 Offline
Hall Of Famer

Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 4752
I really don't mind losing a game against a team that has great attacking skills.

If they are able to come down and get through a tightly spaced defending unit of 8-9 players and then can combine perfectly to score, or if they can play a great ball in from the wing right to the target player who scores first time out of the air, then they are a great team. The fans will see great play, they will see the beautiful game played at its highest level.

It's when your fans have to witness poorly given up goals cause by mistakes that could have been prevented by simple cover and reduced defending space tactics that sometime makes you question wether you are watching something beautiful, or something just plain sloppy.

If your team is giving up sloppy goals which start far away from your own goal, then the system is not working. As a coach you have to make adjustments, that's why you're there, to identify the problems and find solutions quickly with the resources you currently have in a realistic way which makes your players more confident. Confident players are happy players. Happy players work hard believe in what they are doing and win games.

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#274721 - 09/11/11 12:30 PM Re: Stop trying to copy Barcelona! [Re: jw7]
jw7 Offline
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Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 4752
“It’s hard to explain, but two mistakes by us cost us the match. It was a good wake up call. We have to be more careful.”

“Football has been tough to us today, because they equalised with the only two chances they had.”

“We’re not panicking, but we know that to repeat our successes we have to repeat what we did before, and that’s not easy.” - Dani Alves



“They got two goals to tie the game. Was it to our discredit or their credit? A bit of both, That’s part of the game.”

“It shows nothing is easy. You have to concentrate for 90 minutes because it’s no good to dominate the whole first half but not the second.” -Víctor Valdés



“Two isolated errors cost us dearly” - Xavi


The midfielder admitted that his team had made silly mistakes in the second half of the game with Real Sociedad that cost them two points. He felt they had the game under their control until the two shock Real goals stunned them.

http://www.fcbarcelona.cat/web/english/n...ontent=Football

Don't give them things to wonder about after the game, use a system that covers for little mistakes, and make sure your players appear strong the whole season long, build their confidence don't erode it by taking too much risk.

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#274722 - 09/11/11 12:37 PM Re: Stop trying to copy Barcelona! [Re: jw7]
jw7 Offline
Hall Of Famer

Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 4752
The mistakes in Saturday's game were the main subject in Busquets’ press conference at the Joan Gamper training ground. "As it happened, last year we also began with problems, losing to Hercules, but it’s no good worrying about it. We have to take note of it, correct the mistakes...

"We must learn from our mistakes" - Busquets



...it was not because Barça had thrown it away but “because they did things well. Of course, we got things wrong...

“If we draw or lose there is a reason. Football is very competitive, very demanding. We have to take things as they come, knowing that it’s all very hard. We have to make a huge effort.” Asked about this unusual choice of starting eleven, Guardiola said “we all have to make it to the end of the year, and all the players have made an effort”. - Guardiola


http://www.fcbarcelona.cat/web/english/n...ontent=Football



According to Busquets, team morale "is not the best today...


Does that sound like the world's most confident team after just their second game of the season?

Now think what the US MNT team is thinking now that they are 0 wins, 2 loses, and 1 draw after three games with a new coach... ??

Is "attacking soccer" really served up best using a 433?
Is "attacking soccer" really all that it is supposed to be for the fans and the players?

Defend to win games and make your fans, players and coaches happy by being well organized and by playing as a team of 11 players.

Especially if your not great at scoring goals in bunches at will and don't have the world's best group of the highest paid players. Because more than ever you need to be able to protect the lead once you gain it through hard work. Every game will have plenty of opportunity to score goals. You only need one or two to win the game because if you can defend well (even when you make a few mistakes) then the 90 minute game of defending and attacking will be remembered as being played beautifully. You will build confidence and the players will be allowed to take risk and make a few mistakes without being held out to dry by the press after the disappointing 2-2 attacking oriented game.

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#274752 - 09/13/11 09:58 AM Re: Stop trying to copy Barcelona! [Re: jw7]
jw7 Offline
Hall Of Famer

Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 4752
WCC Blog: Transitioning to a 433 system

http://www.worldclasscoaching.com/blog/?p=1138

Book by Local St Croix Valley Assistant DOC Tony Englund

https://www.worldclasscoaching.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=326&idcategory=15

"The 4-3-3 formation has enjoyed a surge in popularity in recent years at the top levels of the game, with the Netherlands, Chelsea, Inter Milan and the National Champion University of Notre Dame women all employing the system to great success, and many other top teams utilizing subtle variations of a base 4-3-3".


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#274753 - 09/13/11 10:02 AM Re: Stop trying to copy Barcelona! [Re: jw7]
jw7 Offline
Hall Of Famer

Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 4752
http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/m...ource=main_feed

Milito scored twice at the Stadio Barbera, but his side were beaten by a motivated Rosanero in Sicily.

"It's not right to think of the Inter of two years ago,” the Argentine international striker, who was part of that treble-winning side, told RAI.

“Today we are a different team, with a new Coach who has other tactics in mind compared to those of the past and we have to be able to adapt to it.


They have already changed their 433 system...

Inter Milan 3 Palermo 4

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/09/12/palermo-4-3-inter-gasperini-3-4-3-tactics/

You might ask yourself when was the last time a top Italian team let in 4 goals...

http://www.chron.com/sports/article/Inter-in-crisis-mode-for-Champions-League-opener-2167963.php

The 2010 champions lost their Serie A opener at Palermo 4-3 Sunday, allowing four goals for the first time in a league match in more than seven years.


Back in Italy, Gasperini was also criticized for keeping Wesley Sneijder on the bench at the start against Palermo, then sending the standout playmaker on for newly signed forward Mauro Zarate after only 34 minutes.

So in addition to a likely change in defense, Gasperini appears unsure who he wants to use in attack.

"I think he's the first one to realize, without pushing him, that he needs to find some remedies," Moratti said.


http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/clubfootball/news/newsid=1509865.html?cid=rssfeed&att=

Gasperini, however, refused to accept that his back three was the main problem against Palermo. "The worst thing was that we were too vulnerable to counter-attacks," he said. "We have to work on our lack of balance.

Inter president Massimo Moratti, however, suggested he believes a change could be in order. "We all took it badly, starting I believe with the coach," he said about the Palermo defeat. And so I think he will be the first, without need of encouragement, to look for the necessary remedies, if only to put the team in a position to regain its confidence. He will be the one to decide if it's time to change [the system], but I think it is."

"It's a false start but not an affair of the state. Now we're thinking about the Champions League and about not having another false start. It's pointless to get worked up talking about a defensive system of three or four defenders, you defend with ten people in a team.- Esteban Cambiasso


http://www.serieaweekly.com/2011/09/the-inter-view-formation-three-no-three-gasperini.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+SerieAWeekly+%28Serie+A+Weekly%29

Gasperini’s men looked disjointed and in disarray, with no flow between the team. There was a disconnect between the midfield and attack, as one could count on a single hand how many touches Milito had in the opening half an hour.

Inter used to be able to hold a 1-0 lead and grind out the result needed, but through tactical mistakes and managers trying to “beautify” the squad’s play over the last twelve months, it seems as if that ability has all but vanished.

It looks likely that the fallout from the match against Palermo will be a change in formation to potentially 4-3-3 for the Champions League game against Turkish side Trazbonspor on Wednesday.

"Say What"? It the love roller coaster all over again until they finally figure out three forwards always up and ahead of the ball while defending just doesn't work in todays game.

Adapt quickly or die trying!

Champions League...


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#274766 - 09/13/11 04:59 PM Re: Stop trying to copy Barcelona! [Re: jw7]
Leitbringer Offline
Novice

Registered: 09/03/11
Posts: 68
Loc: Brooklyn Park, MN
I did not understand why he put Sneijder as a forward... He played a couple players out of position. Also I am a Napoli fan so seeing this happen cracks a smile on my face.
_________________________
"When you are 4-0 up you should never lose 7-1" - Lawrie McMenemy

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