7260 Members
134 Forums
27792 Topics
292773 Posts
Max Online: 110 @ 05/23/12 12:15 AM
|
|
|
#280045 - 04/18/12 02:25 PM
Re: Stop trying to copy Barcelona!
[Re: jw7]
|
Hall Of Famer
Registered: 04/21/10
Posts: 3078
Loc: Negril, Jamaica
|
Watching the Chelsea/Barcelona Champions League match this afternoon. This is by far one of the best soccer matches I have seen in a long time.
Chelsea is lacking in ball possession, but hey, why attack when you go up by a goal just before half. From a coaching perspective, I think that Terry, Cahill and the rest of the Chelsea backline is doing everything right. They are being patient, letting Barcelona make the mistakes (Messi's turnover at midfield) and staying compact.
Chelsea has also gotten more patient throughout the match. In the first-half, it looked like they had their line of confrontation at midfield. However as the second half has gone on, that lines seems to be about 10 yards into their half of the field.
I am disappointed at the play in Drogba. The guy is diving all over the pitch like an Italian. What a dork!
Barcelona is doing a good job when attacking. They are being patient in working with the field they have and as usual they do a great job getting numbers up when they make their runs. However, the field conditions seem to be playing havoc with their ability to finish. For those of you who did not watch, they have had some serious blunders with the ball inside the 18 yard line. Messi has also had a terrible corner or two and his free kicks have been off.
Regardless of how this one finishes, I am not going to miss the second match of the series. Barcelona will be at home and will hopefully do a better job breaking down the Chelsea back line.
_________________________
--Soccer Boy
"If you're in the penalty area and don't know what to do with the ball, put it in the net and we'll discuss the options later." Bob Paisley, former Liverpool manager
#TakeBackTheCup
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#282544 - 07/17/12 09:07 AM
Re: Stop trying to copy Barcelona!
[Re: Soccer Boy]
|
Hall Of Famer
Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 4773
|
Many people refuse to use the term 451, they also refuse to see it as a flexible system... We see it explained as: 4141 4231 4321 433 343 The main problem is that many people just can't see that a big part of the system (the three central mids) is not played as a group of lines... and the outside players (outside mids and fulbacks) are the ones that exchange positions within the traditional three lines. It uses the concept of strong side (ball side) and weak side (without the ball) and has player position rules based on the player's distance away from the ball at the time of transition. The central triangle players can change position with in the triangle to give the harder working players a chance to rest (staying back as the holding mid player). The whole system is based on solid possession play, if the team gives up the ball in the middle third with poor passing often then the system (one that needs time to change shape into attack) will fall apart and look sloppy. It only needs one or two players to pressure the ball to delay the other team's attack. It is a system that uses the all the principals of play the best and the most efficiently. http://www.coachingadvancedplayers.com/how-xavi-changes-spains-formation-from-a-4-3-3-to-a-4-2-3-1/The most current systems of today have three different formations based on which third the ball is in. The numbers move forward and backwards to keep a number up situation all over the field as the ball moves into a new area. 451 in the defending third: The shape is not a 4411, 4231, or a 433. It is a 451 with a central tringle, not three/four lines. The midfield is a group of 5 players working around the rules of a central triangle, three central mids with defined roles based on their distance from the ball at the time of transition. Two wingers that defend from a starting position behind the ball when in the def 1/3 and then attackers when forward of the def 1/3. Maintaining the central triangle shape is the key to a well played 451. When in the defending third the triangle has a base of two players back and one out at the point that stays out front of the base to prevent the switching of the ball across the field quickly. Your goal is to turn the ball back and away from the spaces closer to entering your defending third. You want to make the attacking team play back to its defenders before coming forward again. That gives your players the time to change shape at a 90 minute defending pace. The two central mids that create the base are the two furthest away from the ball during the transition to defending. It is not two defined players in a 4231... The shape has one counter attacking player (the lone forward) pushed up high to create space between the lines and one trailer (attacking mid) to support that quick counter and to use the space in the middle between the lines to build up the attack through the middle. ..... x....x....x....x ..... x....x....x....x ............. x ............. x343 in the middle/attacking third: Each group moves one player forward when in solid possession of the ball. The week side fulback moves up into the space ahead as the week side mid becomes a forward away from the ball side, this creates an unbalancing effect and is intended to spread out the defenders. The central mid at the point of the triangle, or the sole forward moves with the ball as the width is used to escape the pressure of the ball coming out of the defending third. That player (which ever one is closer to the ball at transition to attack) creates better support near the ball to move forward quickly. This 343 shape creates more short shaped width moving through the middle third. It keeps the other team's defenders planted wider and more forward than they would like to defend the ball from entering the attacking 1/3. The space to play in behind the back line is maintained for the counter attack player with speed. .....x.....x......x ... x ....x....x....x ...... x ... x ... xIn attack the shape could even become a 334 if you have great possession skills (passing and support training), and well developed execution of combine to penetrate attacking plays. *Chelsea played a 460/451 (450 after the red card) to beat Barcelone that was "parking the bus" in the defending third. The 451/343 one that changes to a 343 in attack is a great defending system, and also a great attacking system when used correctly. 442 433 343 352 451 flexible 460 bus parked
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#282549 - 07/17/12 04:12 PM
Re: Stop trying to copy Barcelona!
[Re: jw7]
|
Hall Of Famer
Registered: 04/21/10
Posts: 3078
Loc: Negril, Jamaica
|
Great stuff JW7. I was beginning to think you fell off the face of the Earth.
_________________________
--Soccer Boy
"If you're in the penalty area and don't know what to do with the ball, put it in the net and we'll discuss the options later." Bob Paisley, former Liverpool manager
#TakeBackTheCup
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#282552 - 07/17/12 05:46 PM
Re: Stop trying to copy Barcelona!
[Re: jw7]
|
Hall Of Famer
Registered: 04/21/10
Posts: 3078
Loc: Negril, Jamaica
|
Many people refuse to use the term 451, they also refuse to see it as a flexible system... We see it explained as: 4141 4231 4321 433 343 The main problem is that many people just can't see that a big part of the system (the three central mids) is not played as a group of lines... and the outside players (outside mids and fulbacks) are the ones that exchange positions within the traditional three lines. It uses the concept of strong side (ball side) and weak side (without the ball) and has player position rules based on the player's distance away from the ball at the time of transition. The central triangle players can change position with in the triangle to give the harder working players a chance to rest (staying back as the holding mid player). The whole system is based on solid possession play, if the team gives up the ball in the middle third with poor passing often then the system (one that needs time to change shape into attack) will fall apart and look sloppy. It only needs one or two players to pressure the ball to delay the other team's attack. It is a system that uses the all the principals of play the best and the most efficiently. http://www.coachingadvancedplayers.com/how-xavi-changes-spains-formation-from-a-4-3-3-to-a-4-2-3-1/The most current systems of today have three different formations based on which third the ball is in. The numbers move forward and backwards to keep a number up situation all over the field as the ball moves into a new area. 451 in the defending third: The shape is not a 4411, 4231, or a 433. It is a 451 with a central tringle, not three/four lines. The midfield is a group of 5 players working around the rules of a central triangle, three central mids with defined roles based on their distance from the ball at the time of transition. Two wingers that defend from a starting position behind the ball when in the def 1/3 and then attackers when forward of the def 1/3. Maintaining the central triangle shape is the key to a well played 451. When in the defending third the triangle has a base of two players back and one out at the point that stays out front of the base to prevent the switching of the ball across the field quickly. Your goal is to turn the ball back and away from the spaces closer to entering your defending third. You want to make the attacking team play back to its defenders before coming forward again. That gives your players the time to change shape at a 90 minute defending pace. The two central mids that create the base are the two furthest away from the ball during the transition to defending. It is not two defined players in a 4231... The shape has one counter attacking player (the lone forward) pushed up high to create space between the lines and one trailer (attacking mid) to support that quick counter and to use the space in the middle between the lines to build up the attack through the middle. ..... x....x....x....x ..... x....x....x....x ............. x ............. x343 in the middle/attacking third: Each group moves one player forward when in solid possession of the ball. The week side fulback moves up into the space ahead as the week side mid becomes a forward away from the ball side, this creates an unbalancing effect and is intended to spread out the defenders. The central mid at the point of the triangle, or the sole forward moves with the ball as the width is used to escape the pressure of the ball coming out of the defending third. That player (which ever one is closer to the ball at transition to attack) creates better support near the ball to move forward quickly. This 343 shape creates more short shaped width moving through the middle third. It keeps the other team's defenders planted wider and more forward than they would like to defend the ball from entering the attacking 1/3. The space to play in behind the back line is maintained for the counter attack player with speed. .....x.....x......x ... x ....x....x....x ...... x ... x ... xIn attack the shape could even become a 334 if you have great possession skills (passing and support training), and well developed execution of combine to penetrate attacking plays. *Chelsea played a 460/451 (450 after the red card) to beat Barcelone that was "parking the bus" in the defending third. The 451/343 one that changes to a 343 in attack is a great defending system, and also a great attacking system when used correctly. 442 433 343 352 451 flexible 460 bus parked JW7, this is great stuff and to me it goes to show how complicated (in a way) 433 is. The thing that make me really upset about American soccer is that we want everything to be nice and neat. You start pushing players forward and most coaches look like deer standing in the middle of the road looking into head lights. I really have enjoyed watching the Stars this season. While they really play what could be classified as more of a 442, they do and excellent job pushing their outside backs forward and involving them in the attach. Both Justin Davis and Brian Kallman have been instrumental in setting up goals. It is just too bad some youth coaches have no flippin' clue how to coach their back line and end up getting their panties in a bundle every time their backs want to push forward. Keep posting the great stuff!
_________________________
--Soccer Boy
"If you're in the penalty area and don't know what to do with the ball, put it in the net and we'll discuss the options later." Bob Paisley, former Liverpool manager
#TakeBackTheCup
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#282997 - 08/16/12 09:58 AM
Re: Stop trying to copy Barcelona!
[Re: Soccer Boy]
|
Hall Of Famer
Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 4773
|
USA 1 Mexico 0 first win at Azteca in Mexico City. Solid defending with flexibility in the style and pace of the attack. 22,000,000 million Mexicans did not see the US try to copy Barcelona. They did not see us play them in a 433 attacking formation... They did not see us attempt to use high pressure to win the ball back in our own attacking 1/3... They did not see an attacking game... Yet history was made! They did see a team that understood how to defend compactly using numbers where the ball was. They did see a disciplined mentality of recovery to defending shape behind the ball quickly after losing possession. They did see an attempt to attack using a slower build up style of possession (*could have been better). They did see a team play to their own strengths. They did see American soccer history being made right in front of their noses... And that is what they will remember in the end. That the US won inside their own home without many of its best players. Adapt, Improvise, and OvercomeMaybe that should be the correct new American style we developed all on our own. 
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#283182 - 08/30/12 08:18 AM
Re: Stop trying to copy Barcelona!
[Re: Soccer Boy]
|
Hall Of Famer
Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 4773
|
Tactical paradise... Some great game management stuff here. http://www.zonalmarking.net/2012/08/30/m...h-others-style/Last night’s Supercopa match – a 2-1 win to Real, meaning they won the tie on away goals – highlighted the huge difference in playing style between the two sides. Real dominated the game in the opening period when the match was frantic and direct. Constant long balls in behind the Barcelona defence produced numerous chances and a red card for Adriano, and Real could have been 4-0 up before Barcelona had even started playing. But Barcelona dominated the second half, even with ten men, as Real dropped off and let Barcelona dictate the tempo. Barcelona’s passing is quick, in terms of going from player to player, but the speed of their attacks from back to front is very slow and patient. The two clubs haven’t chosen to indulge more in their own identity, but instead respond to the other’s strength.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#283377 - 09/09/12 08:36 PM
Re: Stop trying to copy Barcelona!
[Re: Soccer Boy]
|
Hall Of Famer
Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 4773
|
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/wr...l?sct=sc_t12_a0Jonathan Wilson comments about Messi and how Alejandro Sabella, Messi's national team coach uses him with the other players on the Argentina National Team. At Barcelona, though, he plays in a very specific way, as a false nine who drops deep off the front line to link the tiki-taka as players move from deep or wide positions into the space he has vacated. It is a devastating style of football when it works, but it is a hugely difficult style of football to introduce -- which is why, despite numerous attempts, no other side in the world, not even Spain, plays in that way. It takes players of great imagination, game intelligence and technical ability and, even if they are available, it takes time. Mutual understanding, the movement that seems instinctive, is developed over hours and hours on the training pitch. At international level there simply isn't time to produce that same cohesion... This is his Argentina: he has turned a strength back into a strength. The vast array of forwards became a burden for his predecessors but he has the clear-sightedness to see those resources in terms of depth rather than breadth. Anybody can imagine an ideal Argentina in which half a dozen great creators weave wonderful tapestries of sublime attacking football; Sabella seems to be producing something much more real, something that works not just in theory but in practice. Argentina 4 Brazil 3 Argentina 3 Germany 1 Argentina 4411 In both of those games -- games in which Argentina could not be guaranteed domination of possession, Higuain played as the main striker with Messi just behind him, backed up by two banks of four. It's solid, conservative and, seemingly, effective. .......................................................................................................................... Now what is interesting is just how Argentina played against Paraguay, a much more defensively shaped team. http://www.goal.com/en-gb/match/82137/argentina-vs-paraguay/previewArgentina 3 Paraguay 1 Argentina 433 (vs 451) http://www.goal.com/en-gb/match/82137/argentina-vs-paraguay/reportAgainst Ecuador in June 2012 "I love the potential of the team with three forwards," Sabella said, "but I have to see our opponent."
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
Previous Topic
Index