The WHAT tournament? FIBA...?

Ha ha we have a little tournament here called the NBA championship, it includes everyone of the best BB players in the world.

The FIBA...

Go ahead and try to get the top NBA players who make 20 million dollars a year to go play in that tournament, why would they?

Next your going to tell me the NHL is not filled with the best hockey players in the world... Because they can't beat Switzerland in the FIHA!

"individual skills don't mean crapo when you have 10 other players on the field.. no offense"

The two most technically-proficient teams met in the WC final, and the most-skilled team won.
Traditionally sterile Germany was transformed by the creativity of Mesut Ozil.
Uruguay would not have gotten anywhere without the individual brilliance of Diego Forlan.
Individual ability, namely that of Ghana's Asamoah Gyan, eliminated the US from the tournament.

Ozil, Forlan, Xavi of Spain and Sneijder of the Netherlands are exactly the type of players the US lacks. Same for England, which hasn't had a truly brilliant individual since Paul Gascgoine.

FIBA? That tourney is a joke. But for the US loss to the USSR (which was fixed), the US will always win a b-ball tourney when they fell like it. Why waste the time an energy on something with no relevancy whatsoever.

I was watching a FIBA game the other night an there must have been about 500 people there. What a joke!!!

England, and the UK in general do not tend to cater for their flair players at all at international level.

I remember Hoddle, Currie & Worthington to name but 3 who never got anywhere near the number of caps they would have gotten for a continental side.

As for your arguement JW,I assume then that England has the best players in the world because the EPL is the best league in the world ?

L always thought the best ice hockey players were Canadians as a rule.

Ah yes sb, the 1972 Olympic final, when for once the US athletes were 'cheated' and we all know that the US have never had athletes who have cheated by taking drugs (Flo Jo anyone ?) or received unfair results because of political judging etc.

The Olympics has always been tainted by a whiff of scandal from day 1.

Is that why Jesse Owens was dominated by Hitler's boys on their own home soil inside Germany, because it's so "tainted... from day 1"?

Is the percentage of English players in the EPL anywhere even close to the percentage of American players in the NBA? I don't think you will find one Arsenal type team (no American players on the team) in the NBA...

The Canadians have always been looked at as the top country in hockey, but that's the point, not all sports are even important at the international level. In the 1980 Lake Placid Olympics the USSR had to have security guards standing around their own team (which was considered the top international team) because they were scared the whole team would defect to the US (yes, to escape communism) but more importantly because their players wanted to play on the top stage that their sport performed on, the NHL.

In Hockey, Basketball, Baseball, and American Football international competitions are not really important. Give a hockey player from Sweden the choice to only play for their national team, or to only play for the NHL and which one does he chose?

My point is that on this side of the pond we have created some leagues that are head and shoulders above any international type of competition. We have created some of the best leagues in the world, our leagues dominate the athletes focus.

Many people give the euros way more credit for their football teams/leagues than they really deserve. Yes, the EPL is one of the top soccer leagues in the world, but it's not even close to other big sports in America in the number of people it draws. Just compare the EPL's twenty teams to American collage football (that sport's div2 teams who are not even really pros yet) and that becomes very clear. Then look at how many different sports are completely supported in America... We are just simply competition crazed people!
Your countries biggest league The EPL, only has a few large stadiums for the top three-four league teams, then four to six middle teams that almost have the ability to challenge the top four in their "medium size stadiums", and then a whole bunch of teams that don't have a chance in hell of even competing in that league, can't afford to one their own, and don't possess a large stadium to fill even if they could. In England you only have one/two big sports that are fully supported by large groups of fans. It's not really even close to what we Americans imagine it to be as a country full of sporting supporters. Even in a city as big as London the number/percentage of people with season tickets to a team that draws 50,000+ is tiny in comparison to any large American town.

Football
Collage Football
Baseball
Basketball
Hockey
Soccer
Nascar
Golf
Tennis
WNBA...
Hell, we even fill arenas full to watch ice dancing when it comes to town...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_football_stadiums_by_capacity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NCAA_university_stadiums

So, why you would bring up the FIBA as some type of argument that American basketball players are not good? It is a little confusing as to what point (from a euro based view) you're trying to make?

The main problem with American soccer player development in general is that we don't attract the countries best athletes yet, plain and simple. It's not the coaches fault, it's not over controlled, no one is stopping kids from going out to play on their own, they just don't see why that is important to them yet.

We don't attract them yet, because many young soccer players are only playing to have fun in the sport of American youth soccer. At this point they (and their parents) see it as a form of cross training, and keeping them off the streets. We don't attract the top athletes yet because there is not enough money in the domestic league (and that is very important influence to a twelve year old boy in America deciding his future training schedule) and few young American players really have any desire whatsoever to go play and live in England, Spain, Italy, or Germany.

If you look at the National Strength And Conditioning's athletes abilities testing program, you will see where the biggest, strongest, fastest, and best overall athletes all end up and it's not soccer. That is where the young athletes spend their free time, where it benefits them the most.

Our best soccer player Landon Donovan is really not one of America's best athletes. He is one of our all time great soccer players.

At some point we may actually attract great American athletes to the team sport of soccer, and if we do then we will be a force to recon with as a national team, that is for sure. That won't happen until after the league itself is fully developed and the young kids can see their future in this sport. Once that happens then we do have the team event passion and numbers to become one of the world's top leagues just like every other big American sport. It does not need to be the top sport in America to be competitive on the world platform because the world platform has never produced more than a few truly world leagues (F1, WC Soccer, WC ski racing...), Few sports travel the world for their league. We are one of the few countries of the world big enough to have a large profitable league and then create a commitment (and have the spare cash) to out spend other leagues for the top players.

I think just about every pro soccer player would want to come to play in America once the league become successful and can compete on a world's top league scale. How great would it be to be your countries hero and then get paid a lot of money in America where there are so many top athletes that they can actually go out to dinner and only be noticed by a few fans every night. In a few years as an MLS player you will be able to have your cake while living one of the world's best lifestyles, and be able to eat that cake with a little privacy at times. A strong draw for top paid athletes who can go home to be mobbed by their loving fans anytime they want..

You would think that.

You know why you would think that?

Because you're a moron.

Yes, I could play in Barcelona, but, instead, I think I'll play in Kansas City. Yeah, that's the ticket.

You know, this is going to shock you (and it shocks me if you're really someone who spends time in other countries), but America isn't the be-all and end-all for every person living outside its borders.

And if and when America's domestic soccer league is on par with some of the world's top leagues, it's not going to necessarily be the destination of choice for "just about every pro soccer player." That's asinine. If MLS ever gets into the conversation with the Premier League, the Bundesliga, Serie A and La Liga, it'll be competing with those leagues for players and it won't get all of them. They won't just naturally come here because this is the land of the free and the home of the goddamn brave.

First off, an American soccer league is never going to generate the type of revenue that will allow it to pay the types of salaries that can be achieved in those other leagues, even if its level of play and amenities begin to approach those leagues that have (in some cases) a century's head start. And at the end of the day, these are professional players. Money's a large part of the equation.

Second off, there's a ceiling on the number of total players and the number of foreign players that MLS can accommodate. Even if that number increases, this is always going to be an American league, built on the American player.

Thirdly, as long as the best you can offer is PPL Park in suburban Philadelphia on a Wednesday night and playing the Pittsburgh Riverhounds in the US Open Cup in front of 2,000 people, I'm sorry, your idea of the American lifestyle outweighing the fact that you can play for Bayern Munich or AC Milan is a fantasy.



I don't know how great it would be. Neither do you. You're just making [censored] up.

It's never occurred to you, has it, that many of the world's top soccer players actually like being noticed, and the trappings of fame? But, hell, no, it's much better to play anonymously in Columbus, Ohio than to have to sign autographs in Madrid.



Okay, let's be honest here: you're an idiot. You're far and away the dumbest person here, with Soccer-Boy going for the silver.

First off, what you envision isn't going to happen "in a few years." IF it happens at all, it's going to be many years.

Also...you know what? The rest of the world doesn't necessarily think that America has the best of everything. You should really get out of the country a bit more and see how other people live and how they can get by just fine without ever setting foot in the USA.

This is the absolute, rock-bottom truth: You're a low-IQ fool. Not only are you stupid, you're aggressively stupid, because you roll your eyes and write a few hundred more misspelled words deflecting the points people make about how stupid your ideas are and you go on through life as if everybody else doesn't get it and you're the only one who does. Soccer-Boy is just kind of naively stupid, and can't make an argument, but you are over-the-top, howl-at-the-moon stupid, the kind of stupid that makes people not answer the door when you ring the bell and suddenly remember dentist appointments two towns over when they see you coming.

Your ideas are ridiculous, facile and immature, showing no more depth and breadth of thought and insight than a bumper sticker. Your worldview is inchoate and jingoistic, your grasp of written English is laughable, and your knowledge of the business of sport (particularly soccer) and the forces that shape it are those of a child.

In short, you suck.

As talented, knowledgeable and busy as you are Bernie, you sure spend a lot of time leaving comments on websites and discussion boards trying to cut people to shreds. I will never understand that about you. It seems your time would be better spent doing more positive writing about things - like this subject for instance. I know that you know you have a great amount of knowledge of the game in the US and have good connections from all the time you've spent involved with the game.

If you don't agree with someone or think their premise is "stupid" or someone is "naive" I don't begin to understand why you waste your time here. I know these people and even though I may not always agree with them either, I know they are decent individuals.

I don't know you personally but I do know who you are and you certainly like to light people up. It seems to be a great pleasure of yours. Not sure why that gets you off but I would encourage you to spend your time more positively and creatively.

That may all be true, but over the last four years it has not slowed me down one bit, now has it? I take chances and share my opinions, go figure I do that in a place called a Discussion Zone, silly me?

Well maybe someday you'll actually have an opinion of your own that we can all tell you our opinion of...

No, That will never happen, it would require you to take a chance... You don't take chances on starting topics based on an opinion, you just come in when you see the opportunity to criticize something from a safe distance hidden away on the Internet so it makes you look like the Einstein you wish you were.

You have no creativity, no ideas, no ideas of a future, absolutely no vision at all. You live on only because of the people around you. You are a leach sucking blood from others to live on in your own sorry little world. You are a simple parasite that needs a host to exists.

You claim to know everything about the business, but have been proven wrong many times. You place everything in the here and now into a vacuum where you think nothing will ever change because the world as you see it, will be just like you and never change.

You are so scared of what people might think of you and your views, you're to afraid to tell anyone who you are... That says the most about you in the end! You are only bold when hidden behind the closed door of a small Internet forum.

Stay a king in your little hidden Internet world superstar. You would never be able to survive in the real world standing behind what you have written on this site.

Or, are you now brave enough to actually tell us who you are Einstein?

Come on BS, tell us your real name? What are you so scared of, why do you hide like e little boy scared of girls? Does your mom not let you come out and play with the big boys in the real world for fear your clothes will get dirty again, you little whimp?

You want to take this off this site and meet once and for all, tell me where, and I'll be there... I'll even invite you to the last NSC MN Stars game on Sept 18 in Blaine, come to the beer garden I'll be back in town then.

Once again the posts on here sail serenly over your head jw.

The US league will never compete with the European leagues because the big 4 sports over here have the tv coverage sewn up and will not allow the game to get a large, regular foothold into tv land.

As for all the sports stadia selling out, the Detroit Lions' home games are blacked out in their local area due to the low attendances. Jacksonville have had to claim a lot of their seats are unusable to alter their official capacity down to a level where they can still be shown on the box too.

As an aside, the 3 major team sports in the UK are football, rugby union & cricket. Whenever English teams or the British Lions tour the world, the hosting nations know they will be swamped with British tourists who will guarantee a financial winfall to the local economy. In Portugal 2004, England took 50,000 fans, more than any other nation including Spain.

And now you even take to arguing a point you agree with me about! Having the best league does not mean you have the best players.

I quoted FIBA as it is the basketball equivalent of the world cup, if the US were that good then they should have won it so many more times than any other nation, something theu have not done.

Lastly the Olympics, yes virtually every Olympic games has been tainted with one scandal or another. Amazing how most Americans remember 1972 as the year the USA was 'cheated' out of the basketball gold, and so few recall it was the year when 12 people died when terrorism struck the Olympic village.

When in Rome, do as the Romans do...
Ok I'll respond in a way that your familiar with in an attempt to foster this discussion along Einstein's thought path.

You would think that...

Because you're a moron.

You know, this is going to shock you (and it shocks me if you're really someone who spends time in other countries), but England isn't the be-all and end-all for every person living outside its borders.

Your idea of the English lifestyle is strange...

You're just making $#!% up.

You're an idiot.

Also...you know what? The rest of the world doesn't necessarily think that England has the best of everything.

You should really get out of the country a bit more.

You're a low-IQ fool.
you're aggressively stupid,
your ideas are dumb.

Your ideas are ridiculous,
Your worldview is like a little boy's.
your grasp of written English is poor you spelled one word wrong.
your knowledge of the business of sport...

In short, you suck.

*From now on this will be my very sophisticated English response to all arguments started by Englishmen. I'm not talking to twits anymore, you two can live in your own little world and find others to argue with.

But I will respond...