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#236152 - 05/28/09 04:39 PM
Re: Open the Pyramid. Promotion and Relegation are Only the Beginning.
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First Team Member
Registered: 01/27/99
Posts: 858
Loc: Marietta, GA
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Originally posted by soccerreform.us:
I'm hoping to have a real discussion on how we open up the U.S. soccer pyramid once and for all. I'll be happy to discuss with anyone who thinks that an open league, yes, with promotion and relegation, doesn't explode the popularity of every division of USL. If you prefer the current model, I'd also be interested your reasons. But please, no apathy or defeatism here. If enough of us want it, and join together, it will happen. If we ever want to host another world cup, it has to happen.
If you're rolling your eyes now at another promotion relegation post - please try and find a point of view that isn't shaded by a powerless acceptance that MLS investors will forever own the top division in North America, or don't respond here. Sorry folks, I want to see a vibrant USL 1 and 2 compete directly with an MLS that is so stilted and stagnated that their most exciting moments revolve around the arrival of new clubs. Unfortunately, the chance that we can replace MLS with USL 1 at the top of the pyramid is far, far less than the chance we can pry open the closed league system. While the current system worked out for the Canadian and Caribbean clubs in the Champs League, it permanently relegates U.S. clubs from that chance.
So come on, let's HAVE this discussion. Together we can make it happen, and I am convinced that the sport stands to experience unprecedented growth when we do.
Again, let me specify: this is not a discussion on whether you think it can happen - this is about whether you want it to happen, and how we get there from here.
If we can move from George W Bush to Barak Obama, we can move from a closed league franchise model to an open league model in U.S. club soccer! Want in one hand, spit in the other, and see which one gets full the fastest. Two facts to understand: 1. Pro/rel ain't happening in our lifetime, if ever. 2. Deal with it. Your post is so full of crap, I don't know where to begin. When the first MLS owner folds his team because he didn't pay $40 million to MLS to have to play in front of 2500 people in some high school stadium in USL-1, just because his team went 6-20-6 the year before, pro/rel, if it ever did happen, will be over. Can we stop these stupid threads?
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#236153 - 06/01/09 06:16 AM
Re: Open the Pyramid. Promotion and Relegation are Only the Beginning.
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Hall Of Famer
Registered: 08/01/04
Posts: 4304
Loc: Laurel, MD
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Originally posted by DavidP:
If we can move from George W Bush to Barak Obama, we can move from a closed league franchise model to an open league model in U.S. club soccer!
See, this was exactly the sort of sludge that I was concerned about when I read that comment in the orginal post to open the thread. It was completely unnecessary. No need to inject politics in a soccer situation unless it is in the context of the forces inside a league or fron office or issues dealing with stadium funding. Can we stop these stupid threads? That was harsh. I wasn't very impressed by the thread but we can still try and be civil. At least Dude cares enough to post. I'm not buying what he selling and was put off by the way that it was "packaged" but it was the (seemingly) the guy's first post here...
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#236154 - 06/01/09 09:17 AM
Re: Open the Pyramid. Promotion and Relegation are Only the Beginning.
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First Team Starter
Registered: 02/17/03
Posts: 1037
Loc: Northern Ireland
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Originally posted by Stone Cold: Just how is this best?
1. What rumored mutiny of USL 1st Division teams - the latest one? This has been flying around for about the past 10 years.
2. If I'm a current MLS team, that has paid 20, 30 or even 40 million dollars for my franchise rights, I am going to ask "will these new teams be putting up that kind of money now to be a part of the MLS?
Otherwise, there is the potential to undercut and devalue the current 1st Division franchise investors. The first promoted team will be proof of that by gaining access to the MLS 1st Division without making the same kind of franchise payment to the MLS that already established teams have had to make.
If a 1st division team is relegated, are they no longer "protected" from losses as suggested in the article? And if they are still covered, then are all the suppossed new "MLS 2nd Division" teams also protected under the same guidelines?! No - that wont flyer with the original or current investors/owners/operators at all!
Even if they pay less because it's the "MLS 2nd Division", there is absolutely NO WAY that these current MLS owners would be able to put up that kind of money - that's why they bought into a USL franchise! (You say look at Vancouver and Portland - what about them? They are going to outside sources for additional ownership monies to make the jump)
No - the only way that I ever see a possible "MLS 2nd Division", with promotion/relegation to the MLS 1st Division, is by having new ownership buy franchise rights under the current MLS structure specifically for a MLS 2nd Division Team under the full knowledge of the investment and related costs involved to meet MLS and FIFA standards...and that is only with the approval and participation of the current MLS 1st Division team ownership groups, having full knowledge that their team could face relegation in the future.
...so we're talking 4 or 5 decades maybe? [/b]Yeah, but other than that, it was the best article on the subject! Imagine this: Charleston wins USL-1. Gets promoted. Their 5,100-seat stadium is inadequate for MLS. What do they do? Expand the place? How long will that take? And how much will that cost? Suppose they build onto it and yo-yo right back down to USL-1? Now they can't even pay the debt service on the addition (not to mention their market probably won't allow them to generate enough revenue to stay up anyway). How is that good for anybody? People like the OP want American soccer to look like English soccer so they can feel better about their fandom. Even if there are facets of the English system that just are not best for what we're doing. That's of no interest to them. They don't want to have that discussion. They just want you to nod and agree with them that all these benefits would just naturally occur if only the magic switch were thrown and we all of a sudden had promotion and relegation. More people would invest? Have you seen how many people have invested in American soccer and established clubs in the last 12 years? And how many of them have gone belly-up? This is not a formula for success. It's only a formula for naive fanatics to feel better about themselves.
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#236155 - 06/03/09 04:30 PM
Re: Open the Pyramid. Promotion and Relegation are Only the Beginning.
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First Team Member
Registered: 01/27/99
Posts: 858
Loc: Marietta, GA
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Originally posted by Yankiboy: Originally posted by DavidP: [b]
If we can move from George W Bush to Barak Obama, we can move from a closed league franchise model to an open league model in U.S. club soccer!
What does moving from a democratic republic to a Marxist dictatorship have to do with soccer? [/b]
No need to inject politics in a soccer situation unless it is in the context of the forces inside a league or fron office or issues dealing with stadium funding.
Can we stop these stupid threads? Oh yeah? Well, he started it.  Okay, perhaps that was a bit harsh. I didn't realize it was his first post. I just get tired of this being hashed around again and again. Maybe I should have said, "Can we leave this subject alone, and stop rehashing it over and over again?"
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Take the picture; you can get more film.
-dcp
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#236156 - 06/28/09 09:57 AM
Re: Open the Pyramid. Promotion and Relegation are Only the Beginning.
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USL Novice
Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 63
Loc: California (Southern Cal)
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I read the article and it sounds firm. But their is always someone or something to muck it up.
But it can work and it will work and it will be done! Just see what the future holds!
That is my prediction, and like i said im always right!
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I dont Care what you think. Im always right and you have to listen to me! (LOL)
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#236157 - 07/22/09 09:41 PM
Re: Open the Pyramid. Promotion and Relegation are Only the Beginning.
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USL Novice
Registered: 07/20/09
Posts: 1
Loc: Charlotte, NC
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I'm kinda new to soccer in the US, so excuse my ignorance if I'm way off base, but it does seem to me the USL policy of protected geographical areas for teams is not helping the overall situation. Clubs tend to thrive in close proximity to one another, close proximity means less travel expenses, more fans traveling, and so hopefully increased revenue. I think if they removed that clause we might see a gradual increase in teams that could support promotion/relegation, but I think there would have to be at least two stipulations:
1. If a team wants to be eligible for promotion it should have to provide proof that it can sustain life in USL1. No eligible team in the promotion spot(s) means a let off for the team(s) otherwise destined for the drop.
2. MLS is off-limits as far as promotion/relegation is concerned. As someone mentioned earlier several major leagues around the world are trying to get to the place the US is by default - with closed top league(s). MLS franchise owner have put too much money into the pot to tolerate relegation, and rightly so I think.
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Nick
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#236158 - 07/23/09 06:36 AM
Re: Open the Pyramid. Promotion and Relegation are Only the Beginning.
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Hall Of Famer
Registered: 08/02/04
Posts: 5043
Loc: Manassas Va
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Originally posted by NCBear:
Yup, even if a London club had to travel to Newcastle and back for all 19 of it's away matches, it would only rack up 9,500 miles of travel in a season. So a conservative estimate is about 5,000 miles of travel in an EPL domestic season.
Ahem, Pompey would travel further than those [censored] bastards.  I believe the season they went up they had around 3,000 miles of travel to 23 away games around the country.
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#252669 - 08/13/09 10:54 PM
Re: Open the Pyramid. Promotion and Relegation are Only the Beginning.
[Re: Doctor_Scrumpy]
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Novice
Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 80
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