We're actually talking about two distinct points here: diving and the, for a better word, "acting like I've been killed" foul.

The first is not great but the second sort of bothers me more. The four or five roll with the player sneaking a looksee to see if the Ref has bought it...and, of course, holding the wrong body part...like the guy from Brazil did early on the the WC that netted him a card. Then, of course, he's back up in 20 seconds.

Actually, Ferry, isn't THAT part of the entertainment package in Mexican soccer? Sort of like the WWF show. Fans know it isn't real but act as if it is. As a Ref, I knew the really bad injury was when the player WASN'T moving around.

Now, as a former ref, something that IS starting to bug me are the players who are going down when barely touched by another player...yes, they are technically fouled, but so slightly as to be a bit humorous since they go down so easily, them being great athletes etc. Seems to be the easier way out...go down instead of really having to work to stay in front of the player. Seeing a LOT of this in MLS. Whose fault? Refs are to blame to a great degree since they ARE making the calls.

One added point: when I was taught to ref (I was in it big time in S. A. for a while and it even helped support us to a degree), I was told that when a ref gave "the advantage" that he couldn't call it back if it didn't work out...so be careful when calling it. Seems now that the "rule" is that if it doesn't work out, the ref can call it back...maybe several yards back.

I Don't like that.

jfl, I have seemed to have lost your e-mail adress. E-mail me so I can get it again. Sorry I haven't answered you back in a while.

Ok y'all lets just talk about this for a minute!!

There ain't a player alive that hasn't been whacked and gone down. Getting kicked hurts. yeah the pats may seem to go down alot and stay down. let's take this Portland game for example. that was by far the most physical game I've seen in 9 years!!! not a dirty physical where players are trying to hurt each other, just plain good old fashioned physical. a good physical. Unfortunately, EP gives up 2 inches and at least 20 pounds to every team they play. that will tend to send bodies flying. EP has to play with speed and quickness to get around some of these guys, yet they wont back down to a physical game!!!

Look at the game. Estrada leaves witha broken nose. Martinez has to leave with a groin injury. Schell has stud marks embedded in his back. LLamas gets smashed with studs to his ankle on the goal that got called back. and lets not forget Greg Hoews leaves the game after colliding heads with Dos santos with a mild concussion and sydnei stays in. Hey, there wasn't enough ice after the game!!!! so to speak.

don't get me wrong here. I'm not whining that we get beat up. I'm just saying sometimes when a player goes down he DID get whacked. Most of the time he gets up and keeps going. and a bit of a rest sure don't hurt much either.

Y'all just gotta know that there is a difference between a dive and getting whacked. I've seen some pretty good dives come from every team we play as well. y'all just started pointing a finger at the pats and maybe you should look at some of the other teams as well.

It does seem like there are an awful lot of finger pointers, especially in our own division and conference. We actually got more positive road reviews from teams in the south.

The Patriots are not a physical team. Most of the other teams in the A-League are -- and maybe, because they're so much larger, they can't help but be. But I agree -- too much yapping about gamesmanship. Not necessarily the views from an official like JFL, those are always refreshing, and, yes, Latin teams "Take the Nestea Plunge" more. But if the other teams and their fans are frustrated, it just might be something else.

Dociceit, you sound pretty close to the situation...